The Watcher in the Woods (1980)

[00:00:00] Welcome to Movie Oubliette, the film review podcast for movies that most people have mercifully

[00:00:18] forgotten. I'm Dan and I'm Conrad and in each episode we drag a forsaken film out of

[00:00:24] the Oubliette. Discuss it and judge it to decide whether it should be set free or whether it

[00:00:31] should be thrown back and consigned to oblivion forever.

[00:00:54] Hello listeners, welcome to Movie Oubliette episode 147, the continental traversing podcast

[00:01:07] with me Dan, procrastinating packing all my crap into boxes in Melbourne Australia.

[00:01:14] And me Conrad, dreading the clock change in Cambridge UK.

[00:01:18] In this podcast we discuss Lisa talked about genre films, sci-fi horror and fantasy because

[00:01:27] we all grew up with creepy siblings being possessed by spirits from another realm.

[00:01:36] My brother seemed fairly normal but there we go.

[00:01:40] Hello Conrad, how are you? I'm very well but I'm dreading the fact that this Easter weekend

[00:01:46] when we are recording is when in the UK they put the clocks forward and I hate it,

[00:01:53] I hate it with a fashion. Yeah it's happening for us next weekend actually so we put the clocks back

[00:02:00] because we're heading into winter. Of course yeah so spring forward fall back I think is

[00:02:06] the way that we remember it in our hemisphere. Yeah it always makes the time zone changes a

[00:02:11] bit awkward so I think at the moment it's a big sort of difference and then we're gonna get

[00:02:16] a smaller difference between you and me. Yeah so you've got the fun of packing up everything that

[00:02:22] you were. Yes yes yes so we have bought our first house, this is new news so yeah just putting

[00:02:30] everything in boxes, I haven't done it yet, I'm thinking about it every day. Yeah but we have

[00:02:37] yeah what? I think in a month we will be moving into our new house so yeah it's exciting times

[00:02:45] this will you know this will be our dwelling for the next I don't know 30 years or however much

[00:02:51] longer I'm alive but yeah it's going to be a completely new space, I can properly set up my

[00:02:58] studio even more so than it is now and well yeah because it'll be your place to do with as you

[00:03:05] wish. Exactly exactly so yeah exciting times, nice change as well, different area of Melbourne

[00:03:13] so it's going to be fun, it's going to be good. Will you have a guest room is my question? Yes we

[00:03:18] will have a guest room. Yeah all right well Conrad have our listeners been talking to us what's in

[00:03:26] the mailbag today? They have and for several films that we've covered recently so we heard from

[00:03:32] Steven on Jabbawocky and he said this was one of the first VHS videos that I bought along

[00:03:40] with the last star fighter I think the range was 9.99 I remember it well oh wow I remember being

[00:03:48] absolutely horrified at the gore, icked out at the grime and being left with a general feeling of

[00:03:53] flatness and disappointment yeah however I've revisited it after listening to the pod and

[00:04:00] I have to say that I liked it much more so much so that I may go and visit the castle in

[00:04:05] Pembrokeshire in May great show guys. Wow cool so there you go we're affecting the tourism industry

[00:04:13] the UK now Dad. Yes everyone go to Wales right now. Just rolled around in a muddy field.

[00:04:21] We also heard from Well Then Let's See on Dune who said the Vaseline budget must have been huge

[00:04:30] to get the Harkinans looking that sweaty glossy probably purchased industrial sized tubs. Yeah

[00:04:39] yeah they were just constantly glistening weren't they? Yeah they were they were absolutely disgusting

[00:04:44] not something that Vilnerved it in his version. Stelang Skarsgard does roll around in a murky

[00:04:51] bath quite a lot so I don't know. Yeah that's true. Yeah and finally we heard from Chazilla

[00:04:58] on the Abominable Snowman who said yes Uskard carrying NRA Americans found the part where the

[00:05:05] Yeti went straight to the firearms the most terrifying part of the film that's why the

[00:05:11] rifles should be inside the sleeping bag. Of course the safest place. Yeah wouldn't you shoot off

[00:05:21] your toes possibly. Yeah well yeah exactly. Anyway please do keep writing we love to hear from you.

[00:05:31] Yeah yeah yeah all right let's move on to the episode today what are we doing Conrad?

[00:05:37] Well let me just shambles on over to the uber liette and find out

[00:05:41] I'm in an abandoned church. Oh okay in the woods. Spooky okay there's a coffin here oh

[00:05:53] looks like there's a blindfolded girl in it. Ghostly. No she's gone. Oh there's a blue ray of a film

[00:06:00] and then I'll just reach in and there's a raven. Wow. And now a cat too much I'm coming back.

[00:06:10] Oh my god. Oh maybe there's a ghost. Fear of animals. I know what do you have Conrad?

[00:06:17] Oh so I have a copy with me of the 1980 although there's a story behind that

[00:06:25] American supernatural horror film The Watcher in the Woods. Yeah directed by John Hoff

[00:06:34] or Huff I think it's pronounced an uncredited Vincent McKevity based on a screenplay by

[00:06:41] Brian Clemens and Harry Spalding and Rosemary Ann Cissan based on a novel by Florence Engel Randall

[00:06:49] and starring Bette Davis, Carol Baker, David McCallum, Lynn Holly Johnson and Kyle Richards.

[00:06:59] Oh so what happens in this movie? Well the perfect American white blonde middle-class couple

[00:07:06] writer Helen and composer Paul decide to rent the creepiest manor in an unspecified but definitely

[00:07:14] rural part of Ye Olde England for themselves and their two daughters Jan and Ellie despite some

[00:07:21] obvious red flags. Yes. One their next-door neighbor and landlady is a spooky grimace on

[00:07:28] legs played by Bette Davis. Two the teenage boy living on a nearby farm is a total smoke show.

[00:07:37] And three every time they so much as approach or look at the house the camera starts prowling

[00:07:43] through the woods spinning or crash zooming into their faces. Ellie starts to hear voices and write

[00:07:52] backwards. Jan is plagued by visions of a blindfolded girl in white desperately calling for help

[00:07:59] and both girls become convinced there's a presence watching them from the surrounding woods.

[00:08:04] As Jan carefully investigates by screeching breathlessly at every person she meets,

[00:08:11] she discovers that all of the locals have been traumatized by a secret tragedy that caused

[00:08:17] the mysterious disappearance of Bette Davis' daughter Karen several decades before. Who or what

[00:08:25] is the watcher in the woods? Is Karen a ghost haunting the three people who hazed her in an

[00:08:31] abandoned church? Or is she trapped in an alternate dimension after an unplanned foreign exchange

[00:08:38] swap with an unsuspecting alien? And will Ellie ever stop being hungry? Find out after the break.

[00:08:48] Yes, we will.

[00:08:49] Well.

[00:09:03] And we're back to talk about the watcher in the woods. This is another childhood special for me,

[00:09:11] Dan. Oh, is this childhood nostalgia then? I think it is.

[00:09:15] Childhood nostalgia.

[00:09:18] But you'd never seen this before, is that right?

[00:09:21] I had never seen this and I've heard about it through you only. I'd never really heard about it

[00:09:27] apart from that. I have been wanting to watch it because I've heard you talk about it being a

[00:09:33] Disney dark period movie where they tried to sort of venture out into more mature content.

[00:09:41] But yeah, no, I'd never seen it before. I was surprised by it. But what's your what's your

[00:09:47] history with this movie? So I probably caught it on television. I never owned it on VHS. I think I

[00:09:54] saw it on TV, recorded it and it was kind of gateway horror for me as a kid. Yeah,

[00:10:01] I can see that. And I think that's what Disney was going for. So the head of the studio at

[00:10:05] the time, Ron Miller, realized that the old family friendly movies was sort of aging out.

[00:10:12] People were not interested in those in the rough and tumble 80s. So he was sort of trying to push

[00:10:18] them into PG territory. And the first attempt at that was the black hole in the late 70s in

[00:10:25] response to Star Wars, bit of a disaster. And then this was the second attempt which they

[00:10:31] thought was going to be their exorcist, child friendly, gateway horror. It's a little bit scary.

[00:10:40] But actually when you examine it quite closely, there's really no peril for anybody involved.

[00:10:47] Nobody's actually got bad intentions at all. It's all fine. I mean, I do find that that's

[00:10:52] the case pretty much with all kind of haunted house spooky movies like generally no one dies

[00:10:58] or very few people get killed. And it's just a bunch of just scary stuff that happens. No one's in

[00:11:06] any real peril. It's much more of a murder mystery most of the time as well. So it's not like a slash

[00:11:13] where it's like body counts are like piling up. It's not like that. It's more about the

[00:11:17] tension building and the atmosphere. I actually did find this movie kind of scary. Like if I'd

[00:11:23] seen this movie as a kid, I would have been petrified. I wouldn't have been able to sleep for weeks.

[00:11:29] So yeah, it's kind of, I think it's kind of brave that Disney kind of released this.

[00:11:34] It was. Yeah. But I mean, it had a troubled history infamously. So if you're a watcher in

[00:11:40] The Woods fan, right? Originally it was going to be released in 1980 and it was screened at

[00:11:47] New York and LA in one cut of the film that wasn't quite finished. Right. Because they were

[00:11:54] desperately trying to get it out in time for Bet Davis's 50th anniversary in Hollywood. Right. So

[00:12:03] they rushed it out a few weeks before it was ready and they hadn't finished the special

[00:12:07] effects for a key sequence at the end that sort of explained what the watcher was, where it was

[00:12:12] from, where Karen was, what had happened. It visualized all of it, but it was really rough and ready.

[00:12:19] And they actually, because it wasn't ready, they took most of it out. It was going like gangbusters

[00:12:24] apparently in this preview right up until the point when the watcher was shown on screen. Right.

[00:12:31] And then people started laughing and then they got confused. Yeah. And then the whole thing

[00:12:35] kind of fell apart. Okay. So Disney freaked out, Ron Miller pulled the film. They got Vincent

[00:12:43] McKevity who is a Disney regular, a director that they trusted to do reshoots for the ending

[00:12:50] to give it a slightly different simpler ending. And then they put it out in theaters in 1981

[00:12:56] in October. So spooky season. Okay. And it didn't do particularly well. So there are

[00:13:02] varying reports as to its budget. Starburst at the time said it was seven million. The American

[00:13:08] Film Institute records it as nine. It gleaned about five million in the box office in 1981. So it was

[00:13:15] a bust at a time when Superman II was riding high that year, Raiders the Lost Ark on Golden

[00:13:24] Pond, Arthur and Stripes. Those were top five movies. So yeah. So it bombed. Right. And then

[00:13:30] I think Disney was a bit embarrassed about it because it wasn't released on home media

[00:13:34] really very much until Anchor Bay, an independent DVD producer was given permission to release some

[00:13:42] of these movies. So they did The Black Hole and they did Watcher in the Woods and they did a few

[00:13:47] others on DVD right and started to show some of these alternate scenes and so on for people who'd

[00:13:54] always wanted to see them. But even that was a fraught process and they ended up fighting

[00:13:58] with Disney a lot because they were trying to hide all of the troubled production aspects of this,

[00:14:03] I think. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was quite surprised it came out in 1980. I mean,

[00:14:09] there was supposed to release in 1980 because it is on the dot of the start of the 80s

[00:14:16] because it doesn't feel like the 80s in this movie at all. It doesn't even really even feel

[00:14:21] like the 70s to be honest. Like it almost feels like the 60s or if you'd put it in black

[00:14:27] and white, I would have believed it was a 50s. Wow. Like it just doesn't look modern at all.

[00:14:34] I would have been quite surprised if I'd seen this in 1980 because it just doesn't

[00:14:40] feel like an 80s movie. It has kind of an old approach to it. It almost feels like a Gothic

[00:14:46] horror, like a 60s Gothic horror kind of thing. Like it doesn't have a modern look or feel

[00:14:54] to it even the way that people talk. Like I don't understand how where are they? They're in

[00:14:59] England, right? Yes. But the family's American. Yes. But they don't really explain that.

[00:15:05] I was just confused because all the locals are very British, like very, very British.

[00:15:10] Yeah. And then you've got this family that's kind of American but sometimes sounds like

[00:15:16] mid-Atlantic almost. Yeah. It's odd. I was a bit confused. I'm not surprised. Yeah.

[00:15:22] So, Carol Baker and David McCallum I think have been working in the UK quite a lot. And the reason

[00:15:27] they were cast in the movie was because they were here anyway. Right. It's sort of like hellraiser.

[00:15:32] It sort of plopped right in the middle of the Atlantic because they can't quite figure out

[00:15:37] what they're trying to do but they want the American audience. Yeah. So you've got Americans

[00:15:42] visiting Ye Old England and it's in the middle of nowhere. They're out in the countryside

[00:15:48] and all that seems to be nearby is a fairground, an abandoned church, a farm with a hot guy on it.

[00:15:54] Yeah. And Bette Davis just scowling constantly in the cottage. Yeah. And this old dark house

[00:16:00] that they film in. So yeah, you're right. It could be any time. And it's very classily

[00:16:07] shot for the most part by John Hoff who is a British director who we know from last year

[00:16:14] from Legend of Hell House. Yes, yes. Which we looked at with Chris McKay.

[00:16:18] Yes. We'd never seen that before and there are parallels between the two.

[00:16:22] There are. Yeah. For sure. I did feel like that. Like the ending felt very kind of similar

[00:16:29] and just the use of wind. Yes. I mean it's the same setting as well. You've got this

[00:16:35] haunted house really that they move into. It's mentioned that's far too big for a family

[00:16:42] of four to possibly live in. So yeah, the setting feels very similar to Legend of Hell House.

[00:16:49] But some of the camera work I think in this is much more late 70s early 80s in the sense that

[00:16:54] there's a lot of spinning. There's a lot of crash zooming sort of like. Yes. Yes. I always

[00:17:01] complained about Kubrick doing it in The Shining in 1980. Crash zooming into people's faces.

[00:17:07] Which I'm not a fan of. And yes, a lot of wind machines

[00:17:11] smoking is literally smoke and mirrors. It really is quite old fashioned.

[00:17:15] It is. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't feel like a modern film. It felt very gothic.

[00:17:21] Like I kind of wanted more of that in like the haunting and I really did enjoy the Legend

[00:17:27] of Hell House and seeing this it was like, oh yeah, there's more of this stuff that I kind of

[00:17:32] wished to see in classic Gothic horror. For me, it was kind of a surprise to see that.

[00:17:42] Lynn Holly Johnson playing Jan is our protagonist, our central character.

[00:17:48] She was a figure skater not an actor. I only know her for two films this and

[00:17:55] for your eyes only where she plays a skater who's a bit of a brat who comes onto

[00:18:00] Roger Moore and ends up in his bed at one point, but he actually sends her away because

[00:18:05] she's like a third of his age and really annoying. So yeah, there's her and then there's Kyle Richards

[00:18:11] who horror fans will know from Halloween where she played Lindsey the girl that was being baby

[00:18:18] sat right. Right. She's appeared in some of the recent trilogy as well. And she was a Disney

[00:18:24] favorite at the time she appeared in the films that John Hoff directed escaped Witch Mountain

[00:18:30] and Return to Witch Mountain. It's about supernatural kids, I think. I haven't seen them.

[00:18:34] I think I've seen the first one, I think. Yeah. Okay. So the point I was going to make is that

[00:18:40] the overarching story like he said it is a detective story and crucially it's like a Nancy Drew mystery

[00:18:47] because the film is really centered on three generations of women. The men are completely

[00:18:54] incidental to this movie. This movie passes the Bechtel test in about three seconds.

[00:19:00] Yeah, I mean it does feel like a Nancy Drew sort of murder mystery and I did find it similar to

[00:19:06] movies where something horrific happens in their childhood and then they have to deal with it

[00:19:13] as adults. So like it or even like Dreamcatcher kind of another movie prom night is kind of

[00:19:21] similar where like someone gets killed or something and then they have to deal with the guilt of it

[00:19:28] later on when the killer comes back or I can't remember. But it's kind of a similar setup.

[00:19:33] Yeah. Which I don't know where I'd seen much. Like I feel like this is one of the earlier

[00:19:39] movies where you've got a haunting what seems like a haunting where it's more of

[00:19:46] a murder mystery like we have to find out what's going on or like how they died or how they're

[00:19:53] trapped, how to get them back, how to get Karen. Whereas previously in these kind of spooky haunting

[00:19:58] movies it's either just trying to vanquish the haunting just trying to get rid of the ghosts

[00:20:04] that's what they were trying to do in like you know all of those 60s and 70s haunting movies

[00:20:10] and whereas this is more like we'll get rid of the ghosts by figuring out how

[00:20:14] either they died or with this one where it's not a ghost and it's a girl that's trapped in another

[00:20:20] dimension which is again a big twist that I did not expect in this movie. No. And then yeah

[00:20:26] figuring that out. Now that's right I mean ghosts are people too and they just need to be

[00:20:30] understood. We need to find out why they're upset and then it'll be fine. Because that became

[00:20:35] quite sort of a cliche almost in like the 90s and 2000s with movies like The Others and The Sixth

[00:20:43] Thieves and What Lies Beneath. I think The Orphanage, The Changeling. They're kind of all

[00:20:50] kind of murder mysteries really. They are and then a film that I saw recently again in 4k

[00:20:56] because it was just released is The Ring or Ringu the original. The Japanese one which

[00:21:02] then does a twist on that which is like yes you found out what happened to Sadako but she doesn't

[00:21:08] give a shit about that. She just wants to kill people. Yeah yeah yeah. She's evil. That's the

[00:21:13] twist at the end of that one. So it's like okay we're going back full circle now. So yeah

[00:21:19] it's interesting how this genre has developed over the years. Yes yes yes so in that respect I

[00:21:25] think it's quite complex in this movie where it's not just an evil spirit they're trying to get rid of.

[00:21:32] No although it looks like it could be because there's a lot of prowling POV shots. There's a lot of

[00:21:40] cello stabbing and sort of jaws like hunting, stalking music. So you really do get the

[00:21:48] sense that there could be a threat here and there are instances where Lynn Holly Johnson's

[00:21:53] Jan is almost drowned. She's almost hit by a stray motorbike that explodes. Yeah. Runaway horses at one

[00:22:02] point you know there's a lot that appears to be threatening. Yes. But then it all turns out to

[00:22:07] be fine. Yeah I know that's why I was confused with the spirit. What are you trying to say?

[00:22:14] Are you trying to hurt Jan or just prove you exist because in all those instances it was

[00:22:21] like Jan didn't get hit by the motorbike because she whispered into Ellie's ear to get Jan to come to her

[00:22:29] and that I guess proves that she's an entity that is you know trying to communicate with Jan.

[00:22:35] Yeah but yeah in a very like there are better ways to do that right?

[00:22:41] Yeah rather than freaking everyone out. I mean it's like the horse sequence.

[00:22:45] The watcher startles the horses and then startles the driver of the van that's going to hit the

[00:22:53] Runaway horse to prevent an accident that could have killed Ellie. And you just think well why not

[00:22:58] not startle the horse? You could just do that maybe. Yeah I mean though I think that scene the

[00:23:03] point of that scene was to lure Jan to the chapel because she ends up at the chapel

[00:23:09] on the Runaway horse. Yeah it's true. Yeah there's a lot of sequence events like I don't

[00:23:14] know how the spirit knew to do that to make that happen but okay that's fine it's another

[00:23:20] entity from another dimension that's fine. Also do they ever call it the watcher in the movie?

[00:23:27] No they don't. I mean that kind of negates the title of the movie there like you never find out

[00:23:33] what the watcher is because they never name the watcher. They never name the spirit as the

[00:23:39] watcher. I mean for the most part in the movie you think the spirit is Karen? Yes. You think she is

[00:23:45] trying to communicate with Jan and then you find out hang on no she's trapped in the other dimension

[00:23:51] and it's this other thing that's trapped in our dimension because they accidentally swapped

[00:23:57] during the seance ritual for some reason during an eclipse and the entity is stuck in

[00:24:05] our dimension and wants to go back and then the ending for me felt very confusing. Yeah it shouldn't

[00:24:12] have been a swap like the watcher goes there Karen comes back why does Jan go away and then

[00:24:19] she comes back with Karen in the watchers it's like what that doesn't make any sense. Yeah

[00:24:25] shouldn't it just be one to one swap? Yeah it should be really why is Jan in the middle of

[00:24:30] this? Yeah I don't know. I've no idea. There are two alternative endings right? Yeah they do explain

[00:24:36] it more but they also make it more confusing. Yes like the more they explain the more I'm confused

[00:24:43] although it does explain a few things that I just queried about like I think they need a Jan

[00:24:49] because she's the image of Karen because Karen is stuck in some frozen dimension where she's

[00:24:57] inverted image and they need Jan's image to rescue. Yeah it doesn't make any sense. I mean

[00:25:04] the more you think about it the more it doesn't really make sense but that's the explanation I guess.

[00:25:10] Yeah the theatrical version of the movie has them recreating the seance with the adult versions

[00:25:16] of The Three Kids who did the hazing ritual on Karen years before or some sort of initiation

[00:25:21] ceremony into their secret club or whatever that's in the church. Yes fine and so they recreate the

[00:25:27] seance with Jan in the middle and then weird spooky thing light show comes in it goes into the middle

[00:25:35] there's just like a whole bunch of lights yeah optical effects going on Jan looks like she's

[00:25:40] getting like sucked into the void but then it just cuts to black and then you see Karen

[00:25:47] there she's appeared on the podium and then it cuts to like Jan on the floor yes with Mike I think.

[00:25:55] Yeah I think one of the reasons they changed the ending was they wanted Mike to rescue Jan to stop her

[00:26:01] from being swapped over to the other dimension because they wanted the male to be active.

[00:26:07] Oh come on who cares he didn't need to be there to be honest. Not really he was just there

[00:26:11] to be hot and take her to a fair ground that's all he was there for. Yeah yeah I mean the alternate

[00:26:17] ending the first one I watched it's very different yes so a monster appears in the chapel. Yes

[00:26:25] laser blasts Mike across the room a horrific monster I might add like it looks like the

[00:26:31] grim reaper on like acid like he's just horrifying yeah he's like an alien gala tool being with like

[00:26:41] black streamers coming off it with wing yes that envelopes Jan it's truly terrifying I'm not

[00:26:48] surprised they took that out I mean kids would have been just traumatized by them.

[00:26:54] Yeah I think so you don't see it until the very end no and it's just like where did this

[00:26:59] come from? And it looks like the Skexies in the dark crystal it's a big puppeted thing the director

[00:27:06] complains that the shots of it are too long yeah they kind of are yeah they kind of are so if it

[00:27:12] were shorter you just saw glimpses of it it would be even freakier and you think well yeah but then

[00:27:17] it would really traumatize children. But in that version at least Carol Baker the mum Jan's mum

[00:27:24] is participating in the ending of the movie and is sort of freaking out and panicking and

[00:27:29] then there's a blinding light and Jan and Karen come back and then there's a tearful reunion on the

[00:27:35] lawn with Betty Davis who luckily has completely redone her hair on that day right I don't know why

[00:27:41] got tarted up for the eclipse don't know yeah and then Jan talks to Ellie about dimensions and

[00:27:46] negative images yeah as they walk across the Lord and it makes no sense whatsoever and then in

[00:27:52] alternate ending two there is a longer version of one but with far too much explanation yeah you get

[00:28:00] to see where Jan and the monster go which is like I don't know like a yes album cover a trip on acid

[00:28:07] or something. It's just yeah it's one of those moments we think less is more I think less

[00:28:15] is more just let us use our imagination about where they go to oh we don't need to see that

[00:28:20] yeah because seeing it far more confusing yes like you've just switched genres completely

[00:28:29] it was first this kind of supernatural spooky movie and you go to another planet yeah I'm fine

[00:28:35] with other dimensions you know I can just imagine oh spirit realm that's fine you know poltergeist

[00:28:40] you've got this other dimension that's fine yeah I don't need to see an alien planet

[00:28:45] that's just too far it's too much to try to consume it's right at the end as well it's

[00:28:53] it's yeah it's jumping the shot yeah it is yeah there's a UFO on a landscape with a river of energy

[00:29:01] and I don't know what's going on no there are hints towards some other bits in there though

[00:29:06] so the alternative ending two they show a longer version of the scene where bet davis confronts

[00:29:12] jan as she's going to the church yeah and tells her the watcher is an angry evil spirit that will

[00:29:18] quote never leave jan and ellie alone yeah all of that is cut in the finished version of the film

[00:29:25] I'm kind of glad it is like there's a lot of more extended explanation and the scenes

[00:29:31] that are in a theatrical cut are much longer with lots of more exposition and much more

[00:29:37] explanation but I feel like you don't need it you really don't need it like I don't need to know why

[00:29:42] this person is over here and we just don't need to see that I'm glad they cut that out yeah I do

[00:29:48] feel like the first option ending with the creature that's terrifying which I kind of like but also

[00:29:56] how Jan disappears for quite a while like they actually think she's gone and her mom arrives

[00:30:04] and it's it's quite emotional it's actually a really powerful scene and when she returns with

[00:30:12] Karen and Karen hasn't aged at all so in the theatrical version she has aged and she's now

[00:30:18] 30 or whatever whereas in the alternative ending she's still a little kid so that's kind of

[00:30:26] interesting and so when you have the reunion with young Karen and like her mother Mrs. Alwood

[00:30:33] it's quite a moving moment it's actually a really really emotional reunion and I quite like that yeah

[00:30:40] and also having Jan and Ellie's mum there just ties it all together as being really a story about

[00:30:47] three generations of women yeah it makes perfect sense the original ending they just needed to

[00:30:52] be given time to finish it yeah and they weren't allowed to so you end up with this weird hasty

[00:30:57] thing that doesn't quite make sense so was that the alternate ending was that the ending that was

[00:31:03] shown to that test screening yeah right yeah I'm confused why there was laughter I don't get it

[00:31:10] either I don't think it's laughable I don't think it's a huge jump from what you've seen

[00:31:16] throughout the movie with like spooky things and images and mirrors to the full-blown

[00:31:22] laser shooting monster it's quite as it is quite a jump but I don't know I kind of liked it it was

[00:31:30] terrifying yeah if they'd finished that maybe if they'd like added some optical stuff to the

[00:31:36] monsters and make it look less puppety maybe it could have been quite cool yeah

[00:31:42] The film is really creepy I think it is I think it's very effective at establishing a creepy atmosphere

[00:31:55] it is although I was confused by it so you from the very beginning you have all these kind of

[00:32:01] point-of-view shots of something watching them something hiding in the in the woods something

[00:32:08] kind of peering behind trees and stuff like you see the point-of-view and for a long time you think

[00:32:15] oh it's just the guy so it's Tom Collie one of the one of the kids that has grown up

[00:32:21] you think it's him because he turns up at the church with Jan but then you find out it's not him

[00:32:27] it's confusing because I didn't even know what I was looking at like who's the point of view

[00:32:33] from now because Karen's in the other universe so it can't be her right so yeah I was a bit confused

[00:32:40] and they never say watcher in the movie right in any of the dialogue it's only in that alternate

[00:32:46] ending that they they say explicitly say the watcher whereas they don't mention the watcher at all

[00:32:53] no mrs. Elwood says I feel that there's something there I know yeah out there in the woods

[00:33:00] yeah but it's not clear that there's two entities at work yeah because you I mean for the most part

[00:33:06] you think Karen is possessing Ellie as well so Ellie starts being possessed and saying creepy stuff

[00:33:13] and writing things on windows and you think it's Karen you don't think it's this watcher no so it

[00:33:20] is a I thought it was a bit confusing like what are you trying to say here yeah I think for the

[00:33:26] most part across the movie you're supposed to think that there is a thing haunting them and it is

[00:33:31] Karen right but then you have the shock surprise that no it's not it's actually the thing that's here

[00:33:36] instead of Karen right and we can get her back yeah so yeah it's intentionally confusing and sort of

[00:33:43] uncanny because you can't figure out what's going on and I think that sort of added as a child to

[00:33:49] the I don't know what's going on here it's creepy yeah yeah I agree it was very creepy and there is a

[00:33:56] lot of dark material that you just would not see in a Disney film so you mentioned the drowning scene

[00:34:04] the ghostly images of Karen that's really terrifying like first you see her in the mirrors

[00:34:13] is this blindfolded girl just calling out for help the fun fear scene the sort of carnival where she

[00:34:19] goes into the room of mirrors and you see like hundreds of Karen's blindfolded black and white

[00:34:25] it's like wow yeah that is bloodcurdlingly scary yeah and and the image of her in the coffin

[00:34:33] that's a ghostly like that really did give me a fright like I was not expecting that

[00:34:39] and even just seeing blood like one of the windows cracks in this triangle shape

[00:34:46] that Jan is sort of touching and her finger bleeds like even seeing even like a drop of blood was

[00:34:51] like war in Disney oh my goodness yeah they were fighting on the set though because even though Ron

[00:34:58] Miller the head of the studio wanted to do this make this move into PG and more adult you

[00:35:06] know stuff for older children and families to watch he's didn't quite have the courage to see it

[00:35:11] through because they were fighting on the set all the time so the scene where uh Jan is screeching

[00:35:16] her head off at her mother and we will talk about Lynn Holly Johnson's performance yeah but

[00:35:22] there is a scene where her mother grabs her by the shoulders and shakes her to try and

[00:35:26] calm her down or say that she's being silly or whatever yeah originally she slapped her one

[00:35:33] but the head of the studio who was on set throughout was like no no no you cannot slap

[00:35:39] a child in a Disney movie you've got to reshoot that so they had to shoot it again and you know as

[00:35:46] I say with the alternate ending where you have bet Davis's character Mrs Elwood saying the thing is

[00:35:51] evil and it will never leave you alone yeah all of that stuff they had to dial all of it back

[00:35:58] because they were worried that they were pushing too far and you know it's funny thinking of Disney

[00:36:03] the powerhouse that it is now but that was mainly through diversification so they ended up launching

[00:36:09] a different brand yeah touchstone pictures right and then they can start doing things like Ruthless

[00:36:16] people and arachnophobia and all these movies that are Disney products yeah but they are under

[00:36:24] a different label sort of like a sub-brand that they can slightly distance themselves from without

[00:36:29] tarnishing their own brand yeah I mean the Disney brand is it's pretty strong yeah and even now

[00:36:36] with them owning Marvel their takeover feels like these are Disney Marvel movies now

[00:36:44] they don't feel like the original phase one Marvel movies yeah well that's the interesting

[00:36:49] thing is like they've got Fox so on their Disney Plus product they've got Alien and Predator and things

[00:36:56] like this but they don't have a horror category if you look there is no horror category on the Disney

[00:37:03] Plus service there's a thriller category yeah and that's where you'll find Barbarian for

[00:37:10] fuck sake I mean that is not a thriller yeah it's a horror movie yeah but they can't quite

[00:37:16] bring themselves to do it even now yeah all these properties are just sort of jammed into this

[00:37:21] conglomerate that they're not quite comfortable with yeah it's it's fascinating fascinating

[00:37:27] yeah yeah I mean talking about Disney isms in this movie there's a lot of optical effects

[00:37:35] that just look very Disney yeah they do don't they it's a bit Mary Poppins isn't it magical

[00:37:41] yeah so like they've got flashes in the woods that are just like drawn on optical effects rather than

[00:37:48] flashing a spotlight or something like like an actual practical effect like even the window

[00:37:55] crack there's like a flash of the crack and it's it's just like another drawn on Disney almost

[00:38:01] like Fantasia looking effect yeah exactly it's kind of odd to see yeah it is it's

[00:38:07] traditional cell animation super imposed on films that yeah it does it feels very

[00:38:12] the Disney approach to special effects it's fun isn't it I mean yeah it's fun but it feels yeah

[00:38:19] family friendly I guess yeah it's like magic and like you say like Fantasia it feels like it's

[00:38:25] magical rather than a tangible real threatening dangerous thing yeah yeah yeah I did have one

[00:38:31] question about the like the drowning scene what was the point in that like why did the entity

[00:38:38] almost accidentally drown Jen you not know I have no idea to meet Mrs. Ailwood I don't know

[00:38:48] is you could arrange a better meet cute than her prodding her with a stick to better out from

[00:38:53] underneath some branches in a pond yeah yeah but yeah that image of bet Davis she's just got resting

[00:39:00] scowl face jabbing at Jan yeah with a stick as though she's pushing her further down and you've

[00:39:06] got shots of Lynn Holly Johnson it looks like she's like under glass in water yeah yeah yeah yeah it's

[00:39:13] quite eerie yeah it's really spooky it's quite strange yeah yeah yeah again that's quite terrifying

[00:39:21] imagery in this movie that I did not expect yeah but yeah very gothic horror as well

[00:39:27] some of the things that the entity causes the sequence of events it feels like final destination

[00:39:33] crossed with like the omen you know this thing like making these almost deaths happen you've

[00:39:40] got the motorbike crash and then the horses scaring the truck driver that tips over and when

[00:39:47] they try to leave when Jan and her mom and Ali try to leave in the car and they drive

[00:39:52] over the bridge and the car won't start and then they get out and lightning strikes the bridge

[00:39:57] at the burst into flames and the calf plummets down like wow this is like terrifying stuff

[00:40:04] it's really strong even though it's a Disney movie and even though they were desperately

[00:40:10] clawing it back to control it so you can understand why it made a massive impression on

[00:40:14] me as a kid yeah I really can and going back to the sort of gothic horror I did find it

[00:40:19] similar to burnt offerings again with bet Davis yeah different type of character

[00:40:27] but yeah like that really kind of spooky atmosphere throughout yeah definitely well

[00:40:33] having bet Davis there will always do that I love all of her line deliveries they're all

[00:40:38] so odd aren't they everything is very staccato and croaky and forceful monotone it's a sort of

[00:40:46] are you sensitive do your sense things yeah Jesus yeah yeah I know calm down lady there are a

[00:40:55] bunch of cliches that this movie does really lean into that we can get into in the movie awards but

[00:41:02] yeah there's a lot of cliches now it's time for random trivia okay Conrad what piece of trivia

[00:41:10] will you reveal to us from a correct mirror today my trivia is that parts of the film were shot in

[00:41:18] Ettington Park in Warwickshire which was the house used for the haunting by Robert Wise oh right

[00:41:26] in 1963 they used it for John Keller's house ah when Jan goes to visit him oh yes I can

[00:41:35] see that but they also used the ruins of the Holy Trinity Church which are on the grounds of the house

[00:41:42] for the exterior shots off the chapel the chapel yeah interesting all that remains of this 12th

[00:41:49] century medieval church is the tower and the walls of the nave and the south transept

[00:41:55] which were restored as a mortuary chapel in 1823 and it's now treated pretty much as a picturesque

[00:42:02] garden feature a ruined church embedded amongst lush trees so all the more reason thinking about

[00:42:11] promoting British tourism to go and visit Ettington Park in Warwickshire because you'll get the haunting

[00:42:18] and if you wander around the grounds and have a look at the church too you'll also get

[00:42:22] the watcher in the woods as a bonus yeah yeah yeah oh I think there should be a walking tour of

[00:42:29] Move You Bliet locations in the UK and that's our trivia yes

[00:42:42] actually talking about the characters so you've got the mum and dad and at first I was like oh wow

[00:42:48] that's an interesting job so the dads are pianist slash opera composer and you never see any of

[00:42:54] it I thought oh yeah we're gonna get some music we're gonna get some writing he plays jazz on

[00:42:59] a piano at one point and then he like flicks through some manuscripts of music in the car

[00:43:04] because that's what you do as a composer apparently like I don't know and you never see him again yeah

[00:43:11] exactly exactly and the mum is a children's book writer yeah which does seem like a popular job

[00:43:18] choice for mums in movies and in horror movies particularly I think yeah yeah I don't know why

[00:43:24] exactly yeah I love the scene where the lady who's the real estate agent yes showing them the property

[00:43:31] when he plays jazz on the piano she says when you said opera I thought he was a serious musician

[00:43:38] I know she's like scandalized by light jazz oh yeah love it awful and it's David McCallum as well

[00:43:46] who I knew as a kid from the man from uncle tv show I know all right okay Ilya Kuriakhin so I was really

[00:43:54] excited to see more of him in this movie and he's got like two scenes and he's gone yeah I know I know

[00:44:01] really sad but it goes back to your point of like it it's about the woman and it is female

[00:44:07] characters in this movie the men don't worry about it but our central woman Lynn Holly Johnson

[00:44:14] young lady Jan her performance is kind of on one note throughout the whole movie and it's shrieking

[00:44:22] at the top of her voice yeah and I find it quite tiresome I wish there'd just been a little bit

[00:44:29] of subtlety a bit of attenuation but she is just pitched a full panic throughout the entire

[00:44:37] movie pretty frantic meeting these British people suffering from a childhood trauma and she just says

[00:44:44] you gotta tell me what happened to Karen crikey you know just sort of ease into it or something

[00:44:50] you know ask them about their day first yeah yeah yeah she's uh full on yeah I know she is full

[00:44:58] on and and she's just so middly like she's really getting into these people's lives

[00:45:05] like really inserting herself like these are they are PTSD affected adults you know you've got one guy

[00:45:14] living in squalor pretty much with like taxi do me rats hanging from the ceiling

[00:45:21] and you got another guy just like a recluse with like a ferocious guard dog yeah leave these

[00:45:29] people alone and she's just like we have to do the ritual again you have to relive your trauma come

[00:45:35] to the church yes let's do that yeah just screeching at mr. Keller who's the the guy with the guard dog

[00:45:42] did the guilt ever go away you know it's a good grief yeah I don't know again it does feel like

[00:45:48] old cinema this is kind of like almost like stage show acting like it doesn't got this sort of

[00:45:55] subtlety and nuance of like film it's more like dramatic and theatrical like a stage show

[00:46:02] and that's why it doesn't feel like a modern movie no you're right I guess as a kid I didn't really

[00:46:08] care about it I was just sucked into the spookiness the mystery yes what did you think about the

[00:46:13] Ellie character this girl that is just constantly possessed and doing really creepy stuff well

[00:46:20] Ellie exists in two states she's either possessed or hungry yeah those are the only two things that

[00:46:27] she expresses at all through the entire movie which is amazing yeah Kyle Richards is a talented child

[00:46:33] actor which is why she was in so many things around this time I think she does pretty well as

[00:46:39] spooky possessed person especially in the theatrical ending where she has to sort of

[00:46:43] march down the aisle and explain the whole plot oh yes that's right that's one of the

[00:46:48] differences as well so instead of the monster entity appearing you've got Ellie possessed by the spirit

[00:46:57] appearing and being yeah very scary I always remember that scene just before that where she's

[00:47:03] running through the woods trying to find her dog Nerik she's named the dog Karen backwards

[00:47:10] I mean that we could see that twist a mile away especially when you've written Karen backwards

[00:47:20] with backwards letters on the window of course we're going to read it the other way around

[00:47:26] so the big reveal was like yeah we got that yeah like 10 minutes ago yeah we can see that yeah

[00:47:33] but yeah so she's running through the woods trying to find her dog and then the wind machine

[00:47:37] that represents the watcher finally catches up with her and she just stares directly into the camera

[00:47:44] and instead of sort of shouting Nerik Nerik she just suddenly goes Nerik

[00:47:51] I'm as a kid they used to freak the hell out of me oh right yeah yeah yeah she's been possessed

[00:47:57] yeah I mean again a bit cliche like I feel like yeah we've kind of seen it in the shining

[00:48:04] I mean which came out the same year right yeah 1980 on the dot yeah or like maybe the omen as well

[00:48:11] yeah that was more 70s I think the omen but yeah very similar yeah kind of that sort of creepy

[00:48:17] possessed kid that's yeah there's something wrong with that kid yeah adults were very frightened

[00:48:21] of their kids in the 80s yeah what did you think about the movie? Sonically I mean I'm talking

[00:48:27] about score but also found I did find it was quite a silent quiet movie there was lots of moments

[00:48:35] in scenes where there was no score at all yeah and it was almost quieter than it should have been

[00:48:41] which was really unnerving it was yeah which was another thing that freaked me out as a kid because

[00:48:46] you weren't being told what to feel a lot of the time and I think in terms of the score

[00:48:50] you get that really from the opening title where okay you've got a music box it's a horror

[00:48:56] movie yeah about a disappearing kid yeah there's a music box but also you've got just the occasional

[00:49:04] little spooky flavors from different parts of the orchestra a bit of jelly here a bit of woodwind

[00:49:10] here but it's just little phrases it's not much it's just sort of slightly eerie

[00:49:16] yeah rather than really going for it yeah I mean it did sound a little disney to me like it was

[00:49:23] almost like oh this sounds like Bambi but if Bambi was a horror movie

[00:49:29] like there was there was a lot of woodwind there was a lot of textural instruments there was a

[00:49:35] lot of percussion it's like a vibraphone or some sort of mallet instrument at one point

[00:49:40] lots of flut and oboe and bassoon it was really texturally interesting score wise

[00:49:46] and kind of unnerved and not your cliche way of like his strings again like they create

[00:49:53] tension with different instruments so it was a different color palette I guess or sonic palette

[00:49:58] yeah there's some experimental synth stuff going on in there as well I don't know if you yeah I

[00:50:04] mean particularly noticed it because I listened to it with a 5.1 Dolby track on the anchor

[00:50:10] bay right disc and yeah there's synthesized heartbeat sound effects going on during some of

[00:50:17] the possession scenes that sound really good if you've got a nice subwoofer so it's quite

[00:50:21] experimental and yeah as you say not leaning on the strings all the time for that stuff yeah yeah

[00:50:27] I mean we have to mention his name obviously because it was by Stanley Myers who has done

[00:50:34] paper house yeah with Hans Zimmer I think he had Hans Zimmer like a protégé or they worked

[00:50:40] together for a while early on in his career so you'll find a lot of Stanley Myers,

[00:50:45] Hans Zimmer crossovers around about this time right right right yeah yeah I mean going back to the

[00:50:51] whole sort of murder mystery aspect on the movie I did like the little clues so you've got the

[00:50:58] triangle shape that keeps appearing so the crack in the window is in the triangle and then

[00:51:03] there's a reflection on the coffin which is in the triangle and the crack on the mirror is in

[00:51:09] the triangle you've got the images of Karen being blindfolded so that's another clue of why was

[00:51:16] she blindfolded you've got the glass and the chapel shattering and you've got the two circles

[00:51:24] of glass that's sort of representing the eclipse I really did love all of those subtle clues it

[00:51:29] did remind me of reading like famous five yeah or In a Blightened Fox you know like oh what does that

[00:51:36] mean you know I know it is it is very sort of a Nancy Drew mystery by way of Sesame Street you

[00:51:43] know today's shape is triangle yeah yeah now I loved all of that stuff as a kid I thought it was

[00:51:51] great and at one point Ellie writes on the mirror do it again tomorrow or something

[00:51:58] I was soap and then you don't know what that means but then like later on you you realize it

[00:52:04] still with the eclipse and it has to the ritual has to happen again on the eclipse and yeah it was

[00:52:09] great stuff yeah do you know how the book ends because this movie is based on a book is it

[00:52:15] completely different from what I read the book ends inconclusively with Jan and Ellie going

[00:52:22] into the woods with some sort of determination to do something right and then it stops oh so

[00:52:29] it copped out of dealing with the ending by just not doing one wow which is yeah really disappointing

[00:52:36] relatively unsatisfying yeah all right so they pretty much had free reign yeah they had to have

[00:52:42] an ending you can't just not have an ending no so the ending with the creature appearing that

[00:52:48] is the intended ending for um John Huff yeah and I think properly edited I think that probably would

[00:52:56] have been the right one especially bringing back the mother and also it doesn't have the

[00:53:00] theatrical versions dangling plot thread where Ellie goes looking for the runaway dog and then

[00:53:05] you're left wondering is the dog okay yeah right because it never comes back so uh that worried

[00:53:13] me as a kid where's the dog right yeah coming to you live from the movie obliate theater it's the

[00:53:21] prestigious movely awards now yes it's that special time of the podcast the movely awards where we

[00:53:33] nominate our favorite symbolically triangle or circle shaped parts of the film in a number of

[00:53:39] ghostly mirror revealing categories first quote my favorite quote comes from Ilya Curiak in David

[00:53:47] McCallum himself and it's when Ellie says when they're looking around the house maybe there's a ghost

[00:53:53] and he says what self-respecting old English house would be without one my favorite quote is from

[00:54:02] mrs. Elwood played by bet Davis to Jan I think you did mention it quickly but it is when she

[00:54:09] finds her after she's cut her finger on the glass and she says what sort of person are you

[00:54:16] and Jan replies it's hard to say just average I guess mrs. Elwood continues are you adventurous

[00:54:22] and kind are you kind and sensitive do you sense things okay creepy led lady alert get out of there

[00:54:35] best hair or costume I think at the start of the film Ellie wears a silver jacket yeah

[00:54:46] at one point and it's great I mean I feel like that's the only 80s thing about this movie yeah

[00:54:52] it does look 80s and it's just yeah sort of a shimmery silky silver jacket yeah and what does

[00:54:59] it say on it is it NASA oh it says Grand Prix on it all right right right right my favorite outfit

[00:55:07] has to be Jan's riding outfit which consists of a skin tight denim trouser and the brightest red

[00:55:17] shirt you've ever seen with a matching red paisley bandana and a bolo tie yeah so yeah she owes

[00:55:25] full cowgirl for this English country side riding yeah I know yeah that's why I'm saying like

[00:55:31] it's very drinks of hazard it's very sort of southern sort of text yeah like cowboy yeah

[00:55:39] if she'd stood across the bonnet of a car at some point I wouldn't have been surprised yeah

[00:55:43] exactly most areas he's moving it yeah I didn't find this movie 80s at all wow anything I found

[00:55:53] more 70s it's like Jan's hair very kind of feathery blonde like almost like fairer forcet type here

[00:56:01] like it's the 80s yeah well I can count to you because aside from Ellie's silvery Grand Prix

[00:56:09] jacket I thought the most 80s thing in this film was Ellie's chopper bicycle which is iconic

[00:56:19] it was made by rally a company in the UK in Nottingham and this bicycle was based on dragsters or

[00:56:27] chopped motorcycles with its deep high backed seat its drop handlebars the sissy bar on the back of

[00:56:35] the seat so a friend could stand behind you and hold on to the handlebar on the seat different

[00:56:42] sized wheels the front wheel was smaller than the back one and it had like a t-shaped gear stick

[00:56:48] that you use to shift gears oh wow and it single-handedly saved the company from going into administration

[00:56:55] it was a massive hit when I believe Ellie is sporting a mark two chopper which was produced

[00:57:03] between 1972 and 1983 and it was iconic for me as a kid favorite scene the clear winner for me

[00:57:12] and the thing that haunted me as a child was the very first sighting of Karen in the mirror

[00:57:19] it's a beautifully constructed scene it's when Jan is putting up a mirror in the house I don't

[00:57:26] know why they're moving in with a gigantic mirror yeah who does that when they're coming from

[00:57:31] abroad to rent a house anyway she puts this mirror up and I don't know how they did it

[00:57:37] but her reflection is not in it the camera sort of moves around her and she is not in the mirror

[00:57:43] yeah and then it suddenly cracks after she puts her fingers on it and you get a shot from the other

[00:57:49] side of the glass so you see her fingers touching the glass yeah and it cracks into a triangle

[00:57:56] and Karen appears in it blindfolded in white screaming for help in with this really weird

[00:58:04] sound design on her voice you can't really make out what she's saying and then the whole thing

[00:58:09] suddenly shatters and tips over in front of her it's scared the living crap out of me as a kid

[00:58:16] I think it's a brilliant piece of uncanny spooky scary filmmaking yeah and it's in broad daylight

[00:58:23] yeah but I found yeah all of the sort of Karen scenes that name has not age at all like

[00:58:33] as soon as they said Karen in this movie I just thought that's got a different meaning now it's

[00:58:39] not quite as scary as it was back in 1918 no maybe she just wants to see the banager

[00:58:48] exactly most cliche moment there's many cliches in this movie but I enjoyed them at the same time

[00:58:57] there's just so many like the parents not being anywhere like you've got these kids just running

[00:59:03] through the woods you know like talking to strangers getting the strangers to go with them

[00:59:09] to a chapel to do a ritual like what where's the supervision here the parents just nowhere

[00:59:17] well as a child of the 80s that actually does ring quite true well okay okay okay it's surprising

[00:59:24] that we survived we weren't supervised as much as children probably are now yeah yeah but I mean you

[00:59:31] just see this so often in movies with with kids where they're just doing whatever they want and

[00:59:37] the parents are like oh it's fine I don't yeah they're fine yeah cliche for you for me the biggest

[00:59:44] cliche is the weirdly relevant music box which I think you have to have in a horror movie

[00:59:50] and then this one it has a girl in a white dress spinning surrounded by mirrors which is like a bit

[00:59:57] on the nose but okay of course I just didn't realize it's the best special effect well I've

[01:00:05] already said mine mine is the the mirror I don't know how they did that it's a practical

[01:00:09] onset effect and you look in the mirror and Jan is not in it and I don't know how they did it

[01:00:14] yeah it's great I love it as well I did also enjoy the the I didn't enjoy but I like the effect of the

[01:00:22] sort of the pond drowning scene with the bubbles kind of on glass and she's kind of illuminated

[01:00:29] as well so it really seems like what is happening here you've got these bubbles kind of hitting the

[01:00:35] glass and it's yeah it's a really odd looking scene yeah it's very peculiar in that way

[01:00:42] that only late 70s early 80s spooky films could be yeah yeah yeah favorite sound do that my favorite

[01:00:50] moment of sound design it's more of an editing choice I think it's where the mum is trying to

[01:00:56] drive the kids away from the house in the middle of a storm at night all right she does that and

[01:01:03] there's churning music from Stanley Meyer going on on the soundtrack and then all of a sudden

[01:01:09] the cars electrics go out and the windscreen wipers stop and the music stops as well but not like on a

[01:01:16] note with a like reverb tail I noticed that I noticed that it almost felt like what's the radio

[01:01:23] playing the score was she listening to a film score in the car if so kudos to her I do that all

[01:01:30] the time most funny moment this is after the mirror smashes on the floor with Jan and Ali says

[01:01:40] hey that's seven years bad luck and Paul replies nonsense I broke a mirror the day I met your mother

[01:01:47] and then the mother replies I'm not sure that makes your point darling

[01:01:53] yeah I love the energy the parents have I love the relationship it's great

[01:02:01] yeah speaking of the real estate agent earlier my favorite funny moment comes from her I actually

[01:02:08] think Eleanor Somerfield who plays Mrs. Tay are the estate agent I think she's the MVP of this movie

[01:02:15] right it's a fantastic performance yeah every line reading that she has is a delight it's like

[01:02:21] this particular type of Englishness that I don't think you really hear very much anymore yeah yeah

[01:02:27] but every vowel is great anyway but my favorite is her withering response to Ellie after they've

[01:02:33] left and Mrs. Ailwood has consented to them renting the house when they've been told that

[01:02:38] she's very picky Mrs. Tay says I actually think it was your daughter that did the trick

[01:02:44] and Ellie says me and she just looks at her goes no dear

[01:02:55] yeah that is great that's great and that's our movie

[01:03:02] hello I'm Lance Guest and you're listening to Movie Oubliette

[01:03:06] hey it's final verdict time should the watcher in the woods from 1980 be set free from its earthly

[01:03:16] bonds to travel back to the spirit realm or alien planet or wherever it's from and project itself

[01:03:23] on everyone's mirrors and be celebrated once again or should it be zapped with a Disney

[01:03:29] rotoscoped bolt of lightning and return into the depths of the year to lost for eternity

[01:03:37] Conrad the childhood favorite of yours what what would you say for for this movie well I still

[01:03:46] think it's really good gateway horror I'm not sure it would work for modern kids maybe because

[01:03:52] I mean it's a bit creaky as you say it's quite old-fashioned yeah so I'm not really sure whether

[01:03:57] you could recommend it to a new generation but I don't know I think people who in our generation

[01:04:04] who might have missed it might have not heard of it because it's in the oubliette it's been

[01:04:08] forgotten I think it's well worth checking out just because it's so spooky and it's so

[01:04:13] effective and it has such an interesting backstory in terms of its production

[01:04:19] that I think it's it's a fascinating piece of filmmaking history in and of itself

[01:04:24] but I the interesting thing about it though is despite it being such a female-centered film

[01:04:31] the problem I have is that Lynn Holly Johnson's central performance is just so bloody irritating

[01:04:38] she's really getting in people's faces and in their lives and meddling and shrieking the entire

[01:04:43] tie so I did find it difficult to revisit as an adult I would admit so I am sort of on the fence

[01:04:52] about it and aware of its flaws and its limitations but the nostalgia wins for me I still love it I

[01:04:59] still think it's spooky I still think it's a brilliant piece of uncanny gateway horror filmmaking

[01:05:05] so I think I would let it go hmm okay yeah well for me I was very surprised that this was a 1980s

[01:05:16] movie didn't feel like that at all felt very gothic horror very 60s almost I wasn't that

[01:05:24] phased by Jan the character of Jan I didn't mind the shaking I don't know I didn't think it was

[01:05:30] that irritating I wish that the original ending was retained like the theatrical ending doesn't

[01:05:39] work it's confusing it makes it a bit like what what just happened I don't know what just happened

[01:05:45] I would have loved the terrifying ghostly like laser shooting alien like yes bring that one

[01:05:52] that I want that ending that's that's great okay overall I actually love this movie I thought

[01:06:01] this was oh okay everything I could ever want in a movie and because it was Disney I think

[01:06:09] it was more subtle with its sort of spookiness it didn't just go out with like just throwing

[01:06:14] buckets of blood on everything and the scares were like yeah they were they were subtle

[01:06:20] but really unnerving like they really got under your skin with all the mirrors and

[01:06:26] the glass cracking and and the clues like I love that I love a murder mystery in a spooky

[01:06:33] haunting movie even though it's not a haunting it's just it's really an alien from another dimension

[01:06:39] I love that I love the genre mashup that's great like this movie for me yeah I think it's it's

[01:06:47] incredible yes 100% would recommend this movie I think it's a great time that's really cool so

[01:06:54] I'm always worried about introducing of my childhood nostalgia films to see you know how they play

[01:07:00] for somebody from a slightly different generation but also somebody who's watching it as an adult

[01:07:06] rather than a kid right being freaked out by it so to hear that it works for you and that you

[01:07:11] enjoyed it I think is really cool I'm impressed by that let's see what our patrons thought of this

[01:07:19] hello how yes Conrad what have you been up to I've been generating erotic werewolf novels

[01:07:24] for people to self publish on Amazon oh nice okay can we have the patrons verdict please

[01:07:34] they agree with you guys they want it to escape the oobliat

[01:07:37] ah right yeah so they agree with us they did but it's not unanimous it's a mixed bunch in terms

[01:07:46] of the responses yeah iconographer says 30 years ago my friends had a bootlegged copy of this movie

[01:07:53] and told me it was the scariest thing they'd ever seen they begged me to watch it but I never got

[01:07:58] around to it until now while this is hardly the scariest movie ever it has a genuine creepy factor

[01:08:06] the pov camera work is unnerving and I think it's genuinely a good little mystery with some fun

[01:08:11] twists is it perfect surely not but I enjoyed it um Eddie Coulter says I say set it free

[01:08:20] the watcher in the woods is a childhood favorite of mine the film has a great creepy vibe thanks to

[01:08:26] director John Huff who also directed the legend of hell house and hammers films twins of evil oh okay

[01:08:33] yeah I'd be keen to see more John Huff movies I so far you know I really enjoyed them yeah

[01:08:40] I'd like to see twins of evil now maybe that could be our our next minnesota yeah I want to see the

[01:08:45] incubus that looks fascinating I have no idea what it's about but the cover looks yeah really intriguing

[01:08:52] I think Louis of ages nominated that for us a few times actually right yes yeah wicked person says

[01:09:00] let her shriek her dialogue from the reverberant cyclope and debts of the ubliet there are ways

[01:09:07] to smoothly combine horror with science fiction this is not one of those right

[01:09:14] so he partly agrees with you conrad he does yeah the shrieking got him down I was very keen to hear

[01:09:21] jasmine's take on this you know it's a female protagonist what did jasmine think oh yes

[01:09:27] and she says I saw this as a teenage college student on the disney channel and when they used

[01:09:32] to air their older films after midnight I remember I had to fight from nodding off through its terrible

[01:09:39] teenage acting and sloppy editing and figured there was no reason I would ever have to sit through it

[01:09:46] again when I heard Conrad say it was a childhood favorite I was motivated to rewatch it this week

[01:09:52] well Conrad shame shame on you I'm so sorry jasmine oh wow so sorry yeah well it's not for everyone

[01:10:05] obviously it's clearly not no no so there we go and finally chasila said something that I've been

[01:10:12] saying the water in the woods was my horror gateway film I was ten when I saw it in theaters

[01:10:18] I would have to sit in the theater and loved it I didn't sleep for a week yeah I would have been

[01:10:25] the same yeah fun to watch it again as an adult it has something to scare everyone bet davis

[01:10:31] whore old trees creepy dude in a raincoat and lots of dark shadows john hoff definitely directed it

[01:10:39] in the hammer legend of hell house style it really shows you what a good director can do even with

[01:10:45] g-rated material yeah very true so a mixed bag but overall yes our patrons did vote to set it free

[01:10:55] with a two-thirds majority ah great great great all right off you go then watch us

[01:11:05] all right so Conrad what is the film up next well we're shifting gears in terms of decade and genre

[01:11:13] we will be watching a 1994 american superhero film the shadow oh I don't think I've seen this movie

[01:11:26] no I haven't either although this is yet another one where I know the score back to front because

[01:11:31] it's gerry golds oh right okay so I have the cd of his score but I've never seen it so this is

[01:11:39] Alec Baldwin as the shadow right and John Lone Penelope Ann Miller Ian McKellen Tim Curry it's a

[01:11:47] great lineup oh okay director it's directed by Russell Mulcahy who directed Highlander

[01:11:55] razorback yeah razor back yes ah it's a weird one isn't it because on the one hand you go he

[01:12:01] directed Highlander and then you say and he directed Highlander too oh yeah it's one of those

[01:12:10] instances where the same director director way worse sequel yeah shut the bed so I don't know

[01:12:18] it could go either way all I know is it was released 30 years ago exactly right and it cost 40 million

[01:12:27] and its box office was 48 so it did not do well nobody's spoken about it since so yeah yeah

[01:12:35] looking forward to that one okay so listeners if you want to keep up to date with our episodes

[01:12:41] you can follow us on all our platforms as movie oobliate and you can also email us at movie.oobliate.com

[01:12:50] and if you want to support the show head on over to patreon where for as little as a dollar

[01:12:54] you can nominate films for us to feature in future episodes and get access to extended portions of the

[01:13:00] show and for five dollars you can vote on the final verdict and get access to our monthly minisodes

[01:13:07] this month we were talking about sequels specifically number twos and which ones are

[01:13:15] better than the originals or which ones are worse yes yes yeah and then some unpopular

[01:13:22] opinions as well yeah some hot takes in there so get ready for that and for ten dollars you could be

[01:13:28] an executive producer on patreon with access to behind the scenes info like chisella eddy coolter

[01:13:35] isaac sutton dr doggie surge of cold crash pictures and iconographer thank you so much for all the

[01:13:42] support we've got mission dice at red bubble and a youtube channel which we should add some more

[01:13:50] content on soon sometime but i'd be good wouldn't it we've got some great content on there already

[01:13:58] and if you haven't already give us a rating or review on Spotify or Apple podcast whatever

[01:14:03] platform you're using to listen to us it does help us out a lot it does yeah okay so that's it

[01:14:11] for this episode conrad is that right uh until next time listeners goodbye avoid mirrors bye

[01:14:32] when you said opera i thought he was a serious musician