Peeping Tom (with Duncan Skiles)

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Movie Oubliette, the film review podcast for movies that most people have mercifully forgotten.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Dan.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Conrad.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And in each episode, we drag a forsaken film out of the Oubliette.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Discuss it and judge it to decide whether it should be set free.

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Or whether it should be thrown back and consigned to oblivion forever.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Movie Oubliette

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, happy Halloween everyone and welcome to Movie Oubliette episode 161, the globetrotting podcast with me, Dan.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcoming spring with open arms down here in Melbourne, Australia.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And me, Conrad.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Buying crap I don't need from Amazon Prime Day in Cambridge, UK.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It is that time of year.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: In this podcast, we discuss everything obscure, genre film, horror, sci-fi and fantasy.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Because nothing is more lovable than a shadowy lit stranger staring into your window on your birthday.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, lovely.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Conrad.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Dan.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: So, welcoming spring.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Spring.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: We have the opposite seasons down here in Australia.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So, everyone else is, you know, carving pumpkins for Halloween.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm looking at cherry blossoms and eagerly awaiting fruit in my backyard.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Because we've got a new house and this house came with fruit trees.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So, I have fruit on the way, which I'm excited about.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Also roses in the front, which I've been taking photos of.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But yes, spring awaits.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, whereas we're starting to get frosts.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's Halloween though.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's spooky season.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope everybody is looking forward to it this year.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: You got any plans, Conrad?

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, part of me is tempted to go through Variety's recently published top 100 horror films and see if I can watch all the ones I haven't seen.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'd love to do that.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: There are some classics on there that I've just never gotten around to.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe I should.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the film that we're doing today is a classic that I had never got around to.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So, I'm really looking forward to talking about that.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Number 57 on Variety's list.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, have we heard from our listeners, Conrad?

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: What's in the mailbag?

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We have.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we heard from film aficionado on Robot Jocks who said,

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Giant robots, jungle gyms of death, dubious Russian accents, traitorous Texans.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Are you not entertained?

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Important lesson, the closest seats to the giant robot battle sometimes aren't worth it.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And here, we thought front row Taylor Swift tickets came at a high price.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, good point.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Good point.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I did actually listen to that sample that you mentioned that was in a Nine Inch Nails song.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it's very recognizable.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So, it's the wailing of the crowd after the robot has fallen onto them.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's been looped at the start of a song.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the song Becoming.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But yes, it's definitely from Robot Jocks.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, very Nine Inch Nails.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Very much so, yeah.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We also heard from Eddie Coulter who said,

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: My first exposure to the film was thanks to the 1989 novelization by Robert Thurston.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I spent the rest of the year hitting video stores, anxiously waiting for those giant robots to appear.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: When I finally got my hands on it, I was not disappointed.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Robot Jocks is another great example of how versatile the late Stuart Gordon was.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: My enjoyment of the film grows with each viewing.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Crash and burn.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I forgot to mention that was the first Stuart Gordon film that we've done on the Oubliette.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm keen to check out some more.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we definitely should.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: There are a few more in that box set.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I think Dolls was in there too.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, love to see that.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And finally, we heard from Serge of Cold Crash Pictures.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Serge.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Serge.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, Robot Jocks is really rough around the edges, but what it lacks in finesse, it more than makes up for in moxie.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It's got low inspirations, high aspirations, and lands somewhere in the middle.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I'd agree.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, the robot effects are astounding, but some of the sort of human interactions comes across a bit silly.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Over the top.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And the stand-ins.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the stand-ins.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but do keep writing to us.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: We love hearing from you.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we do.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we do.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: So, it is time to reveal the film for today.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Time to fetch it, Conrad.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just stomp on over to the Oubliette and open it up.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is a very dark space.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Where am I?

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like some sort of film developing studio or something.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a film playing of a child being tortured with a lizard.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's a bit mean.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: There's another film here.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll bring that back instead.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it'll be two quid.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And back again.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And today's film is...

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: The 1960 British psychological horror thriller film Peeping Tom, directed by Michael Powell

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: of Powell and Pressburger fame, written by Leo Marx and starring Carl Boehm, Moira Shearer,

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Anna Massey and Maxine Audley.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Ooh.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And what happens in this film?

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Dan, it's London at the beginning of the 60s, just before it began to swing.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And hip, young, focus puller Mark Lewis is murdering unsuspecting women and filming their

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: reactions with his camera, which has a handy bladed tripod accessory.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's all in the name of science, of course, continuing the work of his late father, who tortured

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: him as a child and filmed his reactions to inform his seminal psychiatric studies.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: When Mark's tenant, the vivacious and inquisitive Helen, takes a shine to the quietly mysterious

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: young man who lives on the top floor, a budding romance emerges.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But will Mark make Helen the final victim to complete his documentary of terror?

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Will Helen's blind mother magically detect his insanity with the hairs on her neck?

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Or will Mark's co-workers discover the body of the stand-in he murdered and stuffed in

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: a trunk on set?

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll find out after the break.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be joined by a very special guest.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Mmm.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Our special guest today is the director of a serial killer thriller Stephen King called

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: unbearably suspenseful, a fourth-time returning champion to the Oubliette, and the subject of

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: my intriguing vegan origin story.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It is, of course, Duncan Skiles.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, sir.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Duncan.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been a long time.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for having me back.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm very happy to be here.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It's good to see you guys and your upgraded, slick-looking studio spaces.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, things have moved on.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a while.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But you've been making another movie, which I'm very excited about.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I shot a movie about a year ago in Alabama, and it is slated to come out next year in

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: the spring.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And it is called Neighborhood Watch.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a comedic thriller starring Jack Quaid and Jeffrey D. Morrigan and Mullen Ackerman.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And that was a ride, that one.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm really proud of how it came out and excited to get it out there.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the log line for that one?

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Does it have like a catchy synopsis?

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, a young man who suffers from schizophrenia and is reintegrating back into society witnesses

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_05]: what looks like an abduction.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_05]: A young woman is forced into a van.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, wow.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_05]: He goes to the police, and they don't believe him because of his history of mental illness

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and hallucinations.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So desperate to do something, he goes to his neighbor, a retired, grumpy security guard.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And they reluctantly team up to investigate the mystery.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_04]: That sounds great.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Their relationship is the heart of the movie.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It's what attracted me to the script, which was a really great script.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Cliff Hitch came out in 2018.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm picky.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I read a lot of scripts, and this one, you know, I just responded to it.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It's by Sean Farley.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_05]: It's his first produced script.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It's first of many, I hope, because he's super talented.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Hidden Jim of Hollywood.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I want him to write more stuff for me before he gets scooped up.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_05]: We did write one other thing.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a fun, like family-friendly Halloween deal in the same vein as like Beetlejuice, Ghostbusters.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_05]: That sweet spot between scary and fun.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Now that I've got kids and Halloween being my favorite holiday, as Halloween approaches,

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I think about what I'm going to show them.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And all my favorite horror movies, they're traumatizing.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I would never show this to my children.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Here, kids.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Have fun.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you ought to wait a few years for that.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_05]: But I like to be scared.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And so, you know, the stack of movies that kind of fits the bill there is short.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, Poltergeist.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: That's pretty terrifying.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but scary fun is something I would love to do next.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So Sean and I, we wrote a script and that's another thing I'm working on.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Right?

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is our Halloween episode, actually.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Wonderful.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_03]: What movie is he going to show your kids this Halloween?

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Nightmare Before Christmas is playing in the theater.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_05]: They are obsessed with the opening number.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_05]: We play it all the time.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, cool.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Every season of the year.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_05]: This is Halloween.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And then my three-year-old son requested to be Oogie Boogie for Halloween.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, cute.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_05]: So I got him the costume and he is too scared to put it on.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, just stares at it.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_05]: But what else?

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we check out maybe Perrin Norman.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I love that.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe Coraline.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Coraline's quite traumatizing, though.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_05]: You got to be careful if you show them the wrong thing.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to be woken up at three in the morning by shrieking.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_05]: As we often are as a result of a bad dream.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_05]: My daughter had a dream the other night of going through the car wash and being swallowed by the car wash as if we were in the mouth of a monster.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And I realized then why the car wash was so scary to them.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I've tried to take her three times, and every time she's like, it's okay, I'm going to be fine.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Go there.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the most traumatic thing of all time.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my God.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_05]: She screams.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_05]: We're talking about the drive-through car wash.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It just hasn't worked out.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And I realize that now it's like, oh, if you're a little kid, it might be like the sensation of getting swallowed up.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sure.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Like in Nope.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And it has these like weird bristly teeth.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's cool because you've got the flashing the party lights and...

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I love that.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just a little too intense for the kids.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, yeah.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, as luck would have it, the film that you chose for us to talk about today features the traumatization of children,

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: although in this case very much deliberate as it turns out.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's Peeping Tom, Michael Powell of Powell and Pressburger fame's second solo film after splitting with Pressburger,

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: a film that was completely overlooked at the time, probably because the critics savaged it.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And this was even worse than the days when review aggregators like Rotten Tomatoes could sink your movie.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: This really did sink the movie.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_02]: The distributor got scared and pretty much buried it.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And it wasn't released in the US for another two years with 20 minutes excised.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So you...

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you'd seen this movie before, had you, Duncan?

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Correct.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's been on my list for a long time.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_05]: So thanks for inviting me back because it was a good reason to finally watch it.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And Dan, you hadn't seen it either, had you?

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I know about its reputation as kind of being like the proto-slasher, like the origins of slasher.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But I've never seen it, partly because I always thought it was going to be like an exploitation,

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_03]: like sleazy, overly sexualized movie, which it isn't.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was pleasantly surprised.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Although it does open with our lead character, Mark Lewis, stalking a lady of the night,

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: a sex worker in swinging London's Soho.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she offers him her services for two quid.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's all in POV.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And lots of critics have pointed out this is probably what startled and horrified critics

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_02]: of the time, that they were being forced into the point of view of the killer and forced

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: to sympathize, which they probably weren't terribly comfortable with.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Really ahead of its time.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, is it the first one to do this?

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Pretty much.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_05]: To do any kind of POV shot or just a killer's POV?

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: See, a lot of people point at Black Christmas, but I think this predates everything, doesn't

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_02]: it?

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Black Christmas was 74, I believe.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And Halloween was 78.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So like a good 15 years after.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It could well be the OG for POV.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what I did find as well, like it felt like found footage to me for a lot of it because

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: you're watching from the camera angle of him, like stalking his victims.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's got the sort of cross hairs on it to make it look like it's from the camera lens

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: point of view.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it did feel like a found footage movie for some of it, which was like amazing

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_03]: for 1960 to have done.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It felt very fresh to me and contemporary feeling.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_05]: It just, in a lot of ways, the dialogue and it was definitely stylized and I loved

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_05]: the style, but it also felt natural in a lot of ways and that was cool.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But it didn't feel grimy to me.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was quite restrained in how it was presenting the murders.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Like they never showed the kills.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_03]: They barely showed any blood.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't a sexual killing as well.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_03]: He was more kind of fascinated by the idea of fear.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: For the most part, it is kind of tame.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_03]: In its visuals, there's no gore or anything.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I was kind of surprised at how well made the movie was.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Very well made.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like lighting wise, I was so impressed with the lighting.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: A hundred percent.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how you would describe that style, but it's the use of a lot of different

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_05]: color in the frame.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of shadow, but everything is really well defined.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_05]: It takes a ton of lights to do that.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I did feel the presence of like a very skilled technician.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know much about Michael Powell or Powell and Pressburger.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: What's their track record?

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_05]: What did they do together?

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So they were regarded as the cream of the crop of British cinema, working at Rank Studios

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: from 1939 to 1957.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were churning out things like the life and death of Colonel Blimp and a matter of

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: life and death.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Red Shoes.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: The Red Shoes being a particularly important film.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It featured Moira Shearer, who also appears in Peeping Tom as the stand-in.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Vivian, who gets murdered by Mark.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: She was great.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Her dancing was phenomenal.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And so they created these highly stylized, beautiful, artistic films that were very complex and

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: thematically interesting, but also just entertaining and stunning to look at and quite visually inventive.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But not horrors or thrillers, right?

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: They were dramas or comedies or historical films.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Or a fantasy.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So A Matter of Life and Death, the one I did study at university, that stars David Niven

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: as a World War II bomber pilot who is supposed to die on the way back from his last mission.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But the angel who was meant to collect his soul misses him in the air.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And so he ends up on a beach amongst the living and falls in love with the lady who was

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: the air traffic controller talking him down.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And eventually the angels catch up with him.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's this court case in heaven about whether he should go on living or not.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, wow.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So like a courtroom comedy, final destination.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You're sort of mixed with ghost as well, but in the inverse.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds great.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a really funny, romantic comedy and it's visually very interesting.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, as soon as I saw this, I thought, okay, it's a slasher movie, but with all of Michael

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Powell's use of color, because out of the two of them, Powell and Pressburger, Powell was always

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: the director.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: By all accounts.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, the very distinctive pockets of color and pockets of light, even on dingy backstage

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: areas where somebody's being stalked.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It still looks stunningly beautiful.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is not something you would necessarily get in the 70s slasher craze.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And who wrote this movie?

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It was very funny.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_05]: The dialogue was great.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Written by a guy called Leo Marx, who originally approached Powell with the idea of making a

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: film about Freud, but then they discovered that John Huston was already making a movie

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: about Freud.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So they explored abnormal psychology in a different way.

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting that this came out in the same year as Psycho.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of shared DNA there.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, there really is.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And whereas Psycho really took off and is like number three in Variety's new list of the top

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: 100 horror movies, people who are at 57, has been largely forgotten.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It's number 57 today.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_05]: That's not bad.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's gotten some recognition as being important, right?

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It has.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Mostly because of the championing of Martin Scorsese, who fought for it to be restored and

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: then shown in the New York Film Festival in the late 70s.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's where its critical reputation picked up.

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think a lot of filmmakers watched it and were inspired.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I can certainly see a lot of Brian De Palma in this, for example.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_05]: A hundred percent.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, even some of the editing and transitions were really progressive.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_03]: There's one scene where Mark goes to meet Helen and her mother, and he walks towards

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: a frame and there's a crossfade, but then the camera goes through a lace curtain into the

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_03]: room.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_03]: That was incredible.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, wow, that's interesting.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not something I would expect in the movie of the 60s.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like the camera's going through the window into the room, which was interesting.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So kind of playing on the idea of always being watched and everyone being monitored.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's some sort of match cuts.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_03]: There's like pouring of a drink at one scene.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_05]: To his beaker of chemicals.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like quite an interesting film.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's a lot of interesting edits and ways of blocking in the film that I did not

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_03]: expect.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Some good comedy cuts too.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Like when we go to the movie studio, which was one of my favorite parts, because I love

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_05]: movies about movies.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Me too.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, me too.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_05]: They tend to not do well, but I dig them.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So like the behind the scenes movie making stuff on this was really fun and fascinating.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And there was one bit where I think where the studio head says like, if you can see it and

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_05]: you can hear it, it's good.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_05]: You just need one take.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And then it smash cuts to a director doing like 57.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_05]: He's on take 57.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Of a lady fainting.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And then there's another bit where there's a psychologist on set and he's like pointing

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_05]: out, oh, that's a very interesting extra who led the leading lady and I'd like to talk

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_05]: to him.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And then the cop's like, that's the director.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like that's probably Michael Powell just like ribbing himself a little bit.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that a dig at Hitchcock as well?

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it felt like it was kind of parodying Hitchcock and how he drew it.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It could well be because he did look a bit Hitchcockian as well, that guy.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So by all accounts, the film within a film that you're watching being produced is Michael

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Powell's savage satire of the sort of films that Rank Studios was producing now that Powell

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and Pressburger weren't there anymore.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, right.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: These sort of fluffy situation comedies with women fainting whilst trying to shoplift silly,

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: trite, badly produced, rushed films that weren't going to amount to anything and would bring

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: down the British film industry, which they did.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_05]: He's getting his shots in.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Powell's coming in hot.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And the guy playing the director, Esmond Knight is the actor's name and he was partially blind.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was a joke as well, that the director's blind.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I noticed that.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_05]: He had one non-functioning eye.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And he wasn't the only blind character in the movie.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So Mark lives on the top floor of his childhood home.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's rented out the rest of it.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And among the tenants are Helen, who becomes his love interest, so to speak, and her mother,

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Mrs. Stevens, played by Maxine Audley, who is fabulous.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: She's great.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: She is constantly day drinking.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Complaining about the price of whiskey.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_05]: What are you worried about?

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_05]: The price of whiskey.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Anything else?

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_05]: What else is there?

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: She's great.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's able to determine that Mark's not a nice guy from the way that he walks in the

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_02]: room upstairs.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: She has those heightened senses.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_05]: She had a dark streak to her too.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_05]: She had something.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like she knew something about Mark because there was something inside of her that was

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_05]: just receptive to that.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_03]: She said a lot of quite profound things.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_03]: One of the quotes I wrote down was when Helen was asking her, how'd you know Mark was at

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_03]: the window?

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And she replies, the back of my neck told me the part that I talk out of.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_05]: What does that mean?

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_05]: That was a really interesting line, but I was trying to interpret that.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a British phrase.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's very much the censor-friendly version of talking out of my ass.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a British phrase.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And when she said, be back in five minutes and I won't even finish this one, was she saying,

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: come back soon so that I won't, and I won't drink too much as an incentive?

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: That was my reading of it.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I watched the film twice and there were a lot of lines that I picked up the second time

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_03]: that I still don't really understand.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's, yeah, it's a very dense dialogue.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I loved Mrs. Stevens as well because she was on the same, I felt like Mark felt like he

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: was totally in control of his life and everything he did.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And no one could sort of match his caliber of intellect or whatever, but Mrs. Stevens did.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Like she was able to sense his wrongdoings from her lack of sight and listening and being

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: able to sense that he was there.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was an interesting dynamic between the two, especially when she confronts him.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: She's in the shadows of his room.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_03]: She's crept up there.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And I did notice his silhouette at the start of that scene.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought, is that a person?

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it was a person.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_05]: When he's showing the light on her, that was the biggest scare for me.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, really?

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Whoa.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty amazing how that scene was shot lighting wise.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a part of the scene where he plays the projection, but she can't see it, obviously.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And he kind of walks in front of the projector and the projection of the victim on his back

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: looks really menacing and like demon-like.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a great shot.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just great filming.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So what is he after?

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_05]: What is his deal?

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: His motivation.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't really get it until the second time I watched it.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think he's continuing his dad's work, right?

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_03]: On fear and also, I guess, peeping Tom's.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why he keeps saying he's making a documentary.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he films all the stuff that's, I guess, about him.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And then at the end when the police show up at his house and he's filming them.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So he has got them walking into the house and he's got all the cameras set up.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And then the final scene is, big spoilers here, but the final scene is his death being really

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_03]: scared, I guess.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess that's his final motivation, right?

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_03]: To make the documentary continuing his dad's work about fear and himself.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And his dad, the disembodied voice of his dad says, good boy at the end.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that right?

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So he's finally reconciled with his father on the final line.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You hear the boyhood version of Mark say, good night, daddy, hold my hand.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is just chilling.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it is chilling.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Jeez.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's in the water in 1959, 1960 that you have this in Psycho.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_05]: One about the crazy father.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_05]: One about the crazy mother.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of, yeah.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Daddy mummy issues going on.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are mummy issues here too.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And what were they?

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_05]: With Helen's mother.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that what you mean?

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's that as well.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So the possessive mother infantilizing her adult daughter.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But you've also got the dead mother in the flashback because that's the fun thing about

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: this.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You get the whole backstory of Mark.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're wondering, why is he like this?

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Fortunately, he sits Helen down and shows her a movie that basically provides his entire

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: case history of his pathology, psychopathology.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_05]: That's when she first comes over, right?

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_05]: She's having a birthday party and she comes over and then he shows her the movie.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you like to see my own movie?

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: She thinks this will be a nice birthday treat.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So he sits her down and shows her him being tortured as a child by his father and him

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: filming it, which includes him having a lizard thrown on his bed, him being filmed spying

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: on a couple that are making out.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_05]: That's when she starts to get a little weirded out.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_02]: How naughty.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Naughty boy.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You should be spanked.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you were spanked.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you see him being led in to say goodbye to his dead mother.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, all of these scenes are heightened by the fact that the father in the movie is

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: played by the director Michael Powell himself.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, really?

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: The young version of Mark is played by his son, Columba.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And the dead body of the mother is played by the mother, like his wife.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my goodness.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So he kept it in the family.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_05]: We're getting meta here.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Was this a therapeutic act for Michael Powell?

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_05]: He's turning out all these like studio comedies and then he just is like, now I turn the camera

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_05]: on myself.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Witness the full horror.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: There was a question about that because there was a sense of this very buttoned down, by all

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the way, he was just mortified.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, this ruined his career.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_02]: He never made another movie in the UK again.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_03]: He made a couple of Australian films, bizarrely.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the only place he could get funding.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, this was Michael Powell's undoing because everyone thought that he was holding

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: a mirror up to himself and everyone was pretty horrified.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas I think he was holding the mirror up to the critics and to the public in terms

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02]: of why do you enjoy watching this?

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So it feels very much like Michael Haneck's Funny Games or maybe the Belgian black comedy

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Man Bites Dog was another one that I thought of.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yes.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Where the audience is implicated in the act of watching sexualized violence.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's what the critics did not like.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was his attempt to create a simultaneous critique and also a new modern style of horror

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: movie making.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Because, of course, at the time, Britain's horror scene was pretty much full of gothic

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: horrors from Hammer.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is very different from this, which is very modern, very much in a shot in a cinema

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_02]: verite style, which, as you say, Dan, looks like found footage to us.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_03]: For me, why it feels so fresh still is like some of the shocking moments are still very

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_03]: shocking.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So like how he kills his victims is quite elaborate.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So he films them while he kills them.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got a tripod that has a blade on the end of one of the legs.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He also has a mirror attached to the front of the camera so that the victims can see themselves

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_03]: dying, which is horrifying.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: The only movie I can think of that's like that is Strange Days that does that, where you see

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: from the point of view of the killer.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So you're watching yourself die.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's, yeah, that is horrifying.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And also at the end when he reveals that every room is still mic'd for audio.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_03]: That makes me feel really uncomfortable.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_03]: The fact he's listening in on all of the tenants of this house.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, was that revealed at the end?

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_05]: What was all the sound that happened at the very end there as he's running towards the

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_05]: blade?

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that was his dad's collection of torturing children sounds.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: As you do.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_05]: He had a, like a tripwire system so that like the flash bulbs were going off as he approached

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_05]: taking still photographs, I assume.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_05]: So he's going to have like a little animation of himself walking towards the blade.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_05]: The thing about the violence in the movie, I think it's like intellectually cool, but it's

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_05]: not realistic.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's like if somebody was coming at you with a blade, you would run.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Just run away.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't just stand there.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_05]: You would move sideways at least.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_05]: But this is true of so many films that have used this technique, like Halloween, you know,

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_05]: opening sequence, little kid stabs a girl.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Friday the 13th, girl gets stabbed in POV.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And they all kind of like cower for a while as the camera is approaching them.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_05]: In reality, you would do whatever it takes to get out of that situation.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, of course.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Of course.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So I mean, I feel the same about Psycho as well, the shower scene.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: As cool as it is technically, it's just not real.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't feel, it's like, she's like, ah, oh, ah.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_04]: She's getting stabbed.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Somebody's getting in the throat one time.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:32:45] Yeah.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think you have to also consider the fact it's the 60s.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_03]: They're not going to go for realism.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Nor do I necessarily want it.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, even in those movies post-60s, like it's, no, no, don't stab me.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Hang on a minute.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me show you my back.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Now do that.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_03]: For me, I always found Slash is the most disturbing in terms of horror, in terms of deaths.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I think the blade is a horrifying way to go.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And it took me a long time to finally appreciate Slash's.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's bloody as well.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a really bloody death.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So like even watching the Scream movies, when I first watched them, I was traumatized.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: There's so much blood and it's screaming and it's, yeah, you don't die on just one stab.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: It's multiple stabs.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a good way to go.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_05]: The Scream series has some drawn out stabbing sequences and I can't really enjoy them anymore

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_05]: because I think I have empathetic pain when I watch movies.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So if somebody gets stabbed, I kind of feel it, you know, and if bleeding out, it's just

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_05]: like, I don't know.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I've got this like connection to the sanctity of the human body.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't like to see them get messed up in that way.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Me too.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's weird.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_05]: It's weird.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I saw In a Violent Nature, which has the most insane slasher death I think I've ever seen.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, wow.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_05]: But at that point, it's just like art.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like the most creative thing you can think of to mangle somebody's body.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It becomes silly at that point.

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It's an achievement of prosthetics and gore effects and coverage and editing.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And so I can enjoy it when it goes to that level.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_05]: But somebody getting stabbed really slowly with a knife, I find to be unpleasant.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Is it?

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Me too.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the same with the Terrifier movies.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's just like, this is just prosthetics and like buckets and buckets of blood.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's not realistic.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It's gory for sure.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, like, you know, it's sawing someone in half vertically is not fun to watch.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's like, yeah, it's theatrical, I guess.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I've not seen any of those movies.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Are they worth checking out?

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_03]: They're fun if you like lots and lots of gore.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Like tons of gore.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_05]: They've done really well.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they have.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_03]: They have.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Art the Clown's pretty iconic.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_05]: He's scary looking.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a pretty modern iconic killer.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is cool to do.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It's cool to be able to create that with, you know, as full as the cultural canon is,

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_05]: like to come up with another icon is an achievement.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And not just recycling the same.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_03]: How can we go with Michael Myers again?

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Again.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And Jason Voorhees again?

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And new Freddy again?

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Did you guys check out the Halloween trilogy reboot series?

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It just got progressively worse.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the third one went into some weird direction with that Corey character that I kind of appreciated.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I appreciated it if it wasn't in that franchise.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: If it was a completely separate movie and not that franchise.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That would have been cool to see.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: What I loved about that, though, was the opening titles were in the Halloween 3 font.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So, I got really excited because I thought, oh, are we going to do something completely different?

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And Michael's not even going to be in this one.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But no.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's what they wanted to do.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That's basically what it is.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, Michael's not really in it.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the only one I find interesting.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: The second one's a real chore.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: The second one's terrible.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: The first one's just a reboot.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a soft reboot.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I think you can get a lot of mileage out of just, like, good Halloween B-roll.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, people still watch the opening credits to Halloween 4 every season because it's these really great shots of Halloween decorations in a rural setting.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And they're really well photographed.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like that perfect atmosphere.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's what a lot of people go to those movies for is it's just kind of like the Halloween vibes, you know?

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So, if you get that part, you can really get a lot of mileage out of it.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to do a whole movie that's just Halloween decorations.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm plotting out here.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds good to me.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Box office smash.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's time for Random Trivia.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So, Dan, what fascinating piece of trivia did you develop in your snuff movie dungeon today?

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, my piece of trivia is about Maura Shearer.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So, she plays Vivian.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: She's actually a professional Scottish ballerina.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So, she used to dance under the Sadler Wells Theatre Ballet and did some really renowned ballets.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Sleeping Beauty, Coppelia, Swan Lake and Giselle.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: And, yeah, her first film debut was The Red Shoes, that movie that you mentioned, Conrad.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But, yeah, so she was very trained in ballet, like highly trained.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's our trivia.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It is.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_02]: As well as making the killer the protagonist, so the audience is forced to follow their perspective and possibly even empathise with him.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I think another thing that's really unsettling and was unusual at the time, although, again, this movie shares this with Psycho, also from 1960,

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: is the killer is not somebody who looks physically different, which would have been the case for the characters cast in Universal Monster movies and Bela Lugosi and so on.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a young, handsome, clean-cut guy who looks fairly unassuming, but secretly is also a killer.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is one of the first examples of doing that.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's a really good way of unsettling the audience.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, particularly when he transitions from the sort of meek, eager photographer persona to the cold, locked-in persona that he gets once he's sort of got his stuff set up.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt it in the sequence with the stand-in.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_05]: She's doing her dance, and he's kind of like arranging things.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And she's somewhat disconnected from what he's doing.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_05]: She doesn't really clock what's going on.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_05]: At a certain point, he just is no longer that mousy guy.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_05]: He's got that look in his eyes like, all right, this is going to happen.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And that control, that dark control energy, that spooked me.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_03]: That's good.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It is confusing as well because he is very likable.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's kind of stepped on by everyone else, but he's a very nice guy.

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_03]: He treats Helen quite well.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He takes her out to dinner.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_03]: He's very respectful.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: He meets her mother, and he's very respectful.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I do find in movies where you're following the killer, and you're supposed to be sympathetic towards the killer.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And you see them killing these despicable people.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm thinking of movies like Maniac with Elijah Wood, where he's killing people that are just unlikable anyway.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's almost like, yeah, you're doing good work.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Or you have killer movies where they kill sex workers or like, you know, druggies and stuff like that.

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Whereas Vivian's not a bad person.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So I felt like, oh, there's a bit of a shift here.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's just killing people for his experiment, regardless of who they are.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_03]: He's not trying to make the world a better place.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It's all for the cause, I guess.

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_03]: She was available.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So it is more disturbing in that scene when he does shift to be like, I've got to do this.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the thing about the prostitute, killing a prostitute, I don't know if that was a moral judgment on her so much as like she's low on the totem pole and people won't miss her type of thing.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that would be similar to Vivian because she's a stand-in.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_05]: She's not VIP.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_05]: She's just one of those like people who's in the background and you kind of call her in when you need her and then you tell her to go away when you don't need her.

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_03]: True.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: What's felt about being a director or the hierarchy of the movie business for Michael Powell?

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Being a director, a big part of your job is to inconvenience people and to push them kind of to as far as they can go sometimes because like you don't have enough time and you don't have enough money.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And it kind of feels bad to be like, I need more out of you.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_05]: And you try to do it in a positive way to, you know, like get everybody inspired and feel like they're working on something great together.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And that way it flows naturally, you know.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_05]: But it is like demanding to be demanding.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_05]: You got to kind of be comfortable with like pushing people.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there was also a comment at the time about being a director and doing absolutely anything to get your shot, even kill yourself.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Impaling himself to get his perfect shot at the end of the movie.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_05]: This is totally about being a director, man.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not good enough.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And he does say to Helen, I think, I want to be, I hope to become a director.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And this movie did kill Michael Powell's career.

[00:42:07] Yes.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_03]: As a director.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_05]: It was like he was kind of running towards his own death as well.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And the director in the movie is like doing 60 takes of somebody fainting and it's about perfectionism.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's about the fear of failing as a director.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the callback to that because you've had the 57 takes of her not fainting convincingly.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And then finally she screams and faints on the discovery of Vivian's body in the trunk.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And he shouts, silly bitch.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: She's fainted on the wrong seat.

[00:42:42] Yeah.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't see how anybody could really be disturbed or offended by this movie.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you have the mother saying you need to get help.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Like there is awareness in the movie that this is a sick man who's been damaged by his, it doesn't in any way celebrate it.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Or glorify it like so many slashers do.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_05]: It acknowledges that this guy is damaged.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And also like he's trying to get discovered, right?

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he hides the body in a trunk to be found.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And film the reaction.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And film the reaction.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_03]: At the end, he knows he's being followed by the police and he sets up a murder that will be easily found by the police as well.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So he is trying to be discovered by the police for the final scene.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_03]: He needs it all to come together to finish his movie, right?

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's a very deep tragedy, really.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he is planning his death the whole movie.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very sad.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_05]: It is very sad.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't disagree that it's kind of depressing.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think it's bad for society.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's also, yeah, it's pointing out the sort of scummy parts of society with the views and guys like always looking at pinup girls and stuff like that.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So it kind of highlights things that we don't want to talk about.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_03]: That are there.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Especially in Britain.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, exactly.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And then just the idea of him like peering in windows or they walk past a girl dressing in a window at one point.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Or they go past the couple canoodling in the shadows.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's like, you know, that exists.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just part of life.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_05]: The canoodling or the staring at the canoodling?

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the staring is probably not great.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But I guess that's the whole point of the movie, right?

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It's called Peeping Tom.

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_03]: They were out there, man.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_03]: They need to get a room.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I know.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: They do.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_03]: They do.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_05]: That's on them.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_05]: That was a funny little sequence where he kept like, they were out on a date and they kept like running into these little vignettes that he would stop and stare at.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, people making out.

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Like a cute little window set up and he'd stop and look for a minute and be like, no, that's not for me.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And she'd be like, good job.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I did find it interesting as well because he's always filming.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_03]: He's always got his camera with him.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_03]: He's always filming everything no matter what it is.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it does like seem so familiar now with everyone filming everything on their phones.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Like hours of footage that no one's going to revisit at all.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, less so than he does.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, because he had a project to make out of it.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I can relate to that.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I've definitely gone through phases where I've always had a camera with me and I felt like I just needed to enhance my appreciation of things.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'll take like a little range finder and I just saw this light and I always had around my neck.

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's just something about, you know, being able to like put it in a viewfinder that crystallizes an experience.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't really like analyzed whether that's healthy or unhealthy.

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, definitely like if you're doing that into a stranger's window, that's not good.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:45:52] Yeah.

[00:45:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would say this movie would be loved by filmmakers, right?

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Like people studying film would really appreciate this movie.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_05]: It totally makes sense why Scorsese loves it.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, God.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a movie about movies and making movies and self-examination.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't seen The Fablemans yet, but I've heard that it's very much an examination of like that feeling of always having to have a camera on you and being unable to live life without a camera.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And in some ways, it's a blessing because you're so talented at it and you can make beautiful things.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_05]: But in some ways, it's also a curse.

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Like you can't experience life without a lens in front of you.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, I always see footage of music concerts and everyone's just filming it on their phones.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Like no one's in the moment ever.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_03]: They're just documenting to show their friends, but they're not really experiencing it.

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_05]: One of those angles might find its way to you and then you'd be able to watch that bit of the concert because that person had their phone up, right?

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, sometimes something comes out of it.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it does.

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_03]: For me, it's I'm the audience, but they should be the audience.

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But they're not.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm still torn between like people constantly filming things all the time.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Same.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_05]: But you reminded me of one of my favorite moments in the movie and it was played in a wide after their date.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_05]: She goes up close to him and says something nice to him and then goes into her room and he holds his hands up.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_05]: In front of him as if he was holding the camera.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he was like simulating filming her or himself in that moment that just happened.

[00:47:28] [SPEAKER_05]: He like recreated the moment in his mind as he was pretending to film it.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_05]: That was so cool.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It was really subtle.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And kind of I wasn't sure what he was doing.

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know whether he was holding a camera or maybe he was holding her face, like practicing kissing her or something.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But then she does kiss him and it looked like he didn't want to be there.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Didn't want to be there?

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_03]: He was not moving at all.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That looked like an uncomfortable kiss.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: He's very asexual.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The only thing he never makes any kind of physical advance towards Helen.

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_02]: The only thing that he kisses is his camera.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Because after she kisses him, he kisses the camera.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Man, this guy needs to go to therapy.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He really does.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he does.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_05]: This movie also has a surprising amount of comedy.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_05]: One of my favorites was early on in the newsstand with the older guy coming in.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_05]: A friend tells me you have some views for sale.

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he gets his portfolio.

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Just watching him flip through it was really fun.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And then a young girl comes in the store behind him to buy some candy.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_05]: He ends up buying the whole thing.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And then it gets put into a bag.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And the bag, what does the bag say?

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Educational books.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It's great, isn't it?

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure it was educational for that man.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm not sure that his wife did any of those sorts of poses in her spare time.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But who knows?

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was really smart to place that scene near the beginning of the movie because

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_05]: it kind of implicates the entire world.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Like everybody's kind of a perv.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a side of London and a side of Britain that nobody had really spoken about before.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that, again, that was probably not something that people were comfortable with.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Along with casting a so-called glamour model in the movie, that caused a little bit of a shock.

[00:49:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So Pamela Green, who appears as the model that he's taking photographs of, Mark, in Over the Top of the News Agents, as his second job.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_02]: He takes these sort of semi-pornographic pictures of women.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And the blonde lady that he's photographing first is Pamela Green, who was a glamour model.

[00:49:39] [SPEAKER_02]: She would have appeared in Views.

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, right.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Do they still say that for nudie pics?

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_02]: No, we've moved on.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's kind of like Brian De Palma wanted to hire a porn actor, Annette Haven, for Body Double in 1984.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But the studio was just too scandalized at the idea of hiring a porn actress for a motion picture.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Has anybody successfully made the transition?

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Sasha Gray was in a Soderbergh movie called The Girlfriend Experience, which I never saw.

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_05]: But I heard she did well in that.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_05]: People have gone from wrestling to movies successfully.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Wrestling all the time, yeah.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I've known actors that have gone into porn after their career didn't take off.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_05]: That'd be interesting.

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_05]: If somebody was really in porn and became a legit actor, that'd be kind of cool.

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Coming to you live from the Movie Oobli at Theatre, it's the prestigious Moobli Award.

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, it's everyone's favourite part of the pod, the Movie Awards, where we nominate our favourite childhood trauma parts of the film in a number of morbidly scoptofilic categories.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Best quote.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_03]: My favourite.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_03]: My favourite.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_03]: My favourite.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So, Duncan, you've already alluded, or you've already mentioned the scene, but it's a scene with a shopkeeper at the start.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And Mark is arriving late.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And then a shopkeeper asks Mark what magazines they sell the most of.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Mark recites back to him.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: He says, those were the girls on front covers with no front covers on the girls.

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Good call.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he says, he ties it in with his job performance.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_05]: He's like, and that's how you should do your job.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And I didn't know what that meant.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_05]: But the delivery is always so great, you know.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_02]: My favourite quote was one from Helen's mother, who doesn't have a first name, it appears.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And she says of Mark, I don't trust a man who walks quietly.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Because then Helen says, he's just shy.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And then she says, no, he's stealthy.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I got another one for Helen's mother when she said, the blind live in the rooms of those who live above them.

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds incredibly profound, but I don't know what it means.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't quite know what it means either.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It means you can hear everything that goes on above you because your hearing is so sensitive.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_05]: So she could hear the film projector and the footsteps and she could get the story.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_05]: It was as if she was in the room.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, right.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Best hair or costume.

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember a scene with Helen in a vivid blue.

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it was a dress.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Was that her party dress or was she came over later?

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it was later.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_05]: No, the scene when she comes over and she tells Mark about her book that she's going to publish.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And she's sitting in a chair and I loved her look altogether in general.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I love the casting of her because it was sort of unconventional.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Her look was a little bit unexpected.

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she's very cute, but she's not like conventionally hot.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I just, I dug her whole vibe as a character.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that dress as well.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Like just the use of, it seems to be primary colors in this movie.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of red, a lot of blue and it just really stood out.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Most 60s moment.

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say Vivian's dancing for her promo reel.

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not quite Bob Fosse.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not quite jazz or swing.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just this weird sequence of balletic leg rises and walking steps.

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a bongos.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Poses and spins.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_02]: What is this?

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's so screamingly 60s and sexy.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03]: You gotta, you gotta have a dance number in a 60s movie.

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Even if it is a slasher.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Most 60s for you, Duncan.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I was surprised there wasn't any smoking in the movie.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_05]: That's true.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_05]: That's very true.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Positively no smoking on set, by the way.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, was that a rule for the movie behind the scenes?

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_03]: No, there was, on the movie set, in those scenes, there was a big banner at the front

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_03]: that said, positively no smoking.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, 60s for me, yeah, the film did feel quite timeless, but some of the technology felt

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of dated.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So one piece of technology in particular, it's Vivian's tape player.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Never seen anything like it.

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It's apparently a Grundig Cub reel-to-reel tape player.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's reel-to-reel, and it was introduced in 1959, and it was advertised as a miniature

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_03]: portable tape.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was sold between 1959 and 1962.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But wow, I didn't even know they existed.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that, pre-cassette tape player.

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Super cool looking too.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But you can only have one reel at a time, or you just have a big box of reels that you

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_03]: have to carry around with you.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Favourite scene!

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: My favourite scene is the sequence with Mark and Vivian in the vacant set.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's almost like a mini-movie, how it starts.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's very suspenseful with Vivian walking on this very darkly lit movie set,

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and she doesn't know where Mark is.

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he just turns on these lights, like the jump-scare lights, because they've got

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: the stingers on them.

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he descends from this lift, and it's really kind of menacing in the shadows.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And then it becomes really fun with her dancing, with the music, and then it gets dark again.

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like this really nice three-act structure scene.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was great.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_03]: That's perfect.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I like the making of the movie, and probably the sequence where the director is

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_05]: making up stuff with the actress about which trunk you're going to look at.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_05]: He's basically blocking out the scene, and Mark is kind of going through them with a tape measure.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It feels very alive and real to the process of moviemaking.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And it leads to a reveal of a body that he films.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I really dug that.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought the details of the making of the movie were really rich, and it's cool to kind of

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_05]: like see how things were done then.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_03]: It seemed very authentic in this movie.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And favourite scene for you, Conrad?

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_02]: My favourite scene we've mentioned before, which is when Helen's blind mother confronts

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Mark.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's good.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just because it's such a brave, dangerous, tense, weirdly sexual scene.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: There's something very Oedipal and odd going on there.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if she wants him to kill her or screw her.

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's got his pointy stick, and she reveals that she has a stick with a point on the end

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_02]: of it as well.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_02]: It's all terribly phallic and Freudian.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I don't know.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: The whole scene is so tense.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That was the one moment in the film where I felt a really palpable sense of danger for

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_02]: a character that I cared about.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Most cliche moment.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Duncan had to go, unfortunately.

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He'll be back for the verdict, though.

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He'll be back for the verdict, but we had to do the last four categories of the Mobley

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Awards without him, sadly.

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But Dan, biggest cliche?

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know whether it is a cliche, but killers always have mummy or daddy issues.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yes, you see it in Psycho and in this as well.

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't really think of any other movies, but it seems to be a cliche.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It does, yeah.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_02]: At least this time it's daddy's fault rather than mummy's.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't tell you the number of times that the women in my life have rolled their eyes when

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: they've realised that the killer is deranged because their mother did something.

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So, for God's sake.

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Not again.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Cliche for you.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Mine was the blind seer.

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yes, yes.

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: The person who is blind, but somehow all of their other senses are heightened in an almost

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_02]: supernatural way.

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So, Helen's mother can sense Mark through the window, even though she can't see him.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm also thinking of just ridiculous films like Krull, where you have a blind seer who

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_02]: can see the future.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And Matrix Revolutions, where Neo can see the future after he's blinded.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, okay.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, yes.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Once you take one sight away, everything else heightens.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_02]: To a supernatural level.

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Weird.

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Daredevil.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah?

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's true.

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Start doing martial arts.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Helen's mother doesn't quite do that.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_02]: She's too sourced for that.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Best special effect.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_02]: My favourite special effect in the movie is one that you possibly might not have noticed

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_02]: was a special effect, which is the pens falling out of Mark's pocket when he's hiding in the

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_02]: rafters.

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So, Powell was experimenting with how to get that shot to read well with the depth of focus

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and the slow motion, which is difficult with objects that small.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So, actually, they're all enormous replica pens and pencils that are falling through the

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_02]: air being filmed in slow motion because that gave them the weight and the size that they

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_02]: needed to be able to keep the focus.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: They're actually bigotures, so to speak.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's really interesting.

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I did not notice that.

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was a very, very well shot scene.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's seamless, but it's, yeah, they're not, that's not a real pen.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Favourite sound effect.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Mine is probably a bit of a cliche, which is that single, lonely, echoey drop of water

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: in Mark's photo developing lab.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yes.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Turning it into a mad scientist's lab or a dungeon almost.

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: That sort of, you've got to have that one little drop.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: One sound I did want to point out is the camera turning on when he starts filming his victims.

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_03]: That sort of, the tape reel sort of spinning around because it always precedes his murders

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_03]: as well.

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So it had this very menacing quality to it.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like something bad is about to happen.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a signature sound sort of like, I don't know, Jaws' theme tune as he approaches.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Or Jason's ch-ch-ch-wow-wow-wow.

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Most funniest moment.

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably the funniest single line to me was right at the very beginning.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a very pointed one, which is when Mark is in the alleyway filming the murder

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: scene or the sort of police gathering the body to take it away.

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And somebody confronts him about the fact that he's filming this and asks which newspaper

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: he's from.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And he replies, The Observer.

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Ah.

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't catch that actually.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: It's very poignant.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is the real name of a newspaper that I'm not sure if it's still going today because,

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, newsprint is dying.

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, The Observer is a real paper.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But obviously, The Observer in Peeping Tom, really.

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very clever.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's our movie.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Chris McKay.

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the director of Renfield.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And you're listening to Movie Oubliette.

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's the moment you've been waiting for with bated breath.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Our final verdicts.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Should Peeping Tom from 1960 escape the Oubliette to film people secretly and be praised by the

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_03]: many or should it be photographed in its final hours, be speared by a camera tripod and tumble

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_03]: back into the darkness of obscurity in the Oubliette.

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Duncan, you've never seen this movie before.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Neither had we.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: What's your final verdict?

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Should people watch it?

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it is very interesting.

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, from our discussion, there's a lot here to digest and process and talk about.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very innovative in terms of the stylistic choices, the POV, sympathizing with the killer.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_05]: The casting is great.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_05]: The lighting is amazing.

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a satisfying meal of a movie.

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I appreciate it more on an intellectual level than I do emotional because of the...

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It's almost more fun to talk about than it is to watch.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: The scenes that I most enjoyed are the non-murder scenes, like just the people, the sharp dialogue,

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_05]: the making the movie, the getting to know Helen, Helen's mother, the stuff in the newsstand.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I was more into that than I was into Mark becoming a psycho.

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And the movie doesn't work for me as well as something like Psycho in terms of the visceral

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_05]: pull of it.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's definitely more of an intellectual experience than it is emotional.

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm 100% glad I watched it.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I would not consign it to the dustbin of A BoVN.

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And it gets an enthusiastic recommendation from me.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you pretty much nailed it on the head.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, all of those things I 100% agree with.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I really expect it to be a sleazy exploitation movie.

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_03]: It's really not.

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a very, very well-made movie as well.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, filmmaking-wise, it's very high caliber in terms of production, lighting, everything.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Even, like, the score we didn't really talk about.

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But the music was very engaging, even though it's just piano, I think, for the most part.

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It just all works.

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And the characters draw you in.

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_03]: The character dynamic, incredible.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And I wish I'd seen this movie earlier.

[01:04:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it's incredibly iconic and influential.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, it must have influenced a bunch of directors.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why it's not more talked about.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I completely agree.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's psychologically complex.

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And it really is either a filmmakers or a cineast's movie.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's talking about movie making.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's satirizing movie making.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's self-reflexively making you think about your involvement in consuming movies and genre movies particularly.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's brilliantly cast, brilliantly performed, beautiful to look at.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree that it is emotionally not necessarily as engaging.

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it was more so at the time.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's just a time period thing.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But I still think it's a fascinating film to visit, especially if you're a fan of movies and horror movies in particular.

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's a tragedy that Michael Powell's career was ended because of this movie.

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish he had done more movies like this.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That would have been incredible.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_05]: And I hope that, I don't know when he died, but I hope he understood that it was appreciated.

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he was fairly calm about it.

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he accepted that it was ahead of its time.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And that it would eventually find its audience.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Just like Megalopolis.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's unanimous amongst us, but we better check on our patrons vote.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Hal.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And a happy Halloween to both of you.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Time for that patrons vote, please.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_04]: It's unanimous.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_04]: They want to set it free.

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: This doesn't happen that often.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it doesn't.

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody is in complete agreement.

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: This film is a gem.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Iconographer says exactly that, actually.

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: What a hidden gem.

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I have never heard of this film, nor of its comparison to Psycho.

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: It was creepy and chilling.

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Mark is such an interesting villain, likeable and repulsive at the same time.

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: For me, the most terrifying part of the film was watching Moira Shearer as Vivian do her

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: dance in those kitten heels.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Was she going to fall flat on her face?

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Fall off the stage?

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Or fall onto Mark's tripod of terror?

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Release this movie from the oublia to let it peer into the windows of the unsuspecting.

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yes.

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess we better set it free.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Goodbye.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Goodbye, Peeping Tom.

[01:07:26] Goodbye, Daddy.

[01:07:27] Oh, my God.

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much for joining us again, Duncan.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a real pleasure to have you for our Halloween episode.

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Always a great pleasure talking to you guys.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It's really fun to just vibe on movies with two fellow cinephiles who are great to talk

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_05]: to.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Appreciate you.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're looking forward to your new movie.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So...

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Neighborhood Watch.

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Neighborhood Watch.

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: When you have a release date.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So sometime spring 2025, most likely.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Jack Quaid, Jeopardy Morgan, Neighborhood Watch.

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Great.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Look for it.

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Watch out for it.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_05]: They changed the title to that shortly after we delivered the movie.

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And when they told me that, I was like, isn't there a movie called Neighborhood Watch?

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Isn't there one with like...

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's called The Watch.

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_05]: But from what I understood, they changed it to that because this was like around the Trayvon

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Martin times and it was like unsettling association with a neighborhood security force because I

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_05]: think Trayvon Martin was murdered by somebody who was like looking out for the neighborhood.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_05]: So it was that.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_05]: They just changed it to The Watch.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And so now we have the title Neighborhood Watch.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it tags it as a comedy, which it is, but you know, it's a mystery.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_05]: It's an exciting mystery thriller comedy.

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_05]: With a heart of gold.

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Check it out.

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't wait.

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And listeners, if you want to follow us, Movie Oubliette, you can find us on all platforms

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_03]: as Movie Oubliette and you can email us directly straight to the source at movie.oubliette

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_03]: at gmail.com.

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Get that direct line in.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you want to nominate films for us to cover in future episodes and get extended portions

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_02]: of the show, head on over to Patreon where you can support the show.

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And get all that stuff for a dollar.

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_02]: All for $5.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: You get our monthly minisodes and the chance to vote on the final verdict.

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: All for $10.

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You can be an executive producer and thanked at the end of the show.

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Chazilla, Eddie Coulter, Isaac Sutton, Dr. Doggy, Surge, iconographer, Ryan A.

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Potter and Evan Goodchild.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: We've got merchandise on Redbubble.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Anything and everything you could want with our logo on it.

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And we've got a YouTube channel as well.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Check it out.

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you haven't already, give us a rating and review on whatever platform you are listening

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: to us on.

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it does help to spread the word.

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It does.

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So it is time, Conrad, to reveal the movie for next episode.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: What are we doing?

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we have put it to the patrons vote and they've been nominating a whole host of fabulous

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_02]: choices for us to put on the Oubliette Roulette.

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got things like Alienation, Looker, Dracula's Daughter, Horror Express, Dolls, another

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Stuart Gordon movie.

[01:10:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, yes.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Quatermass in the Pit, The Giver with Mark Hamill, Dark City.

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_02]: There's loads of great stuff on there.

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's give it a spin.

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Here it goes.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It spins and spins.

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: What could it be?

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Click, click, click, click, click, click.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's No Escape.

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I haven't heard of this one.

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, so I have because I've been talking to Boss Salvage who nominated it several times in

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the past.

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah.

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a 1994 science fiction film.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's Escaping from a Futuristic Prison.

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And it stars Ray Liotta, Lance Henriksen, Kevin Dillon and Erdie Hudson.

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, oh, wow.

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Great actors.

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: From the 90s.

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Produced by Gail Ann Hurd.

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Directed by Martin Campbell.

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just released on 4K.

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I bought it and I haven't watched it yet.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, right.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm keen to check it out.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Me too.

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's set in the futuristic year of 2022.

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It's two years ago.

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Great.

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, no, that's going to be really fun.

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Have we done 90s for a while?

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Feels like we haven't.

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think technically Robot Jobs was 1990.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, that was definitely much more of an 80s movie to me.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I think so.

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But yes, I'm keen to check out proper 90s.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_02]: No, that should be fun.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for nominating that boss, Savage.

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Can't wait.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And thanks again, Duncan, for joining us.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been amazing as always.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you guys.

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll see you next time.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Happy Halloween, everyone.

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Bye for now.

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Goodbye.

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Bye.

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Naughty boy.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you were spanked.