John Carter

[00:00:04] Welcome to Movie Oubliette, the film review podcast for movies that most people have mercifully forgotten. I'm Dan. And I'm Conrad. And in each episode, we drag a forsaken film out of the Oubliette. Discuss it and judge it to decide whether it should be set free. Or whether it should be thrown back and consigned to oblivion forever.

[00:00:38] Movie Oubliette Hello and welcome to episode 168 of Movie Oubliette, the equator straddling podcast for forgotten fantastical films with me, Conrad, playing with a steam deck in Cambridge, UK. Oh, okay. And me, Dan, inundated with figs in Melbourne, Australia.

[00:01:00] We focus on forgotten fantasy, sci-fi and horror films because we love teleporting to new planets, manipulative, bald monks and heroes with pets that look like a cross between a pug and a hippo. Oh, yeah. Steam Deck. What is that? It's a handheld PC, like gaming device. Oh, okay. Yeah. So similar to like a Switch? Yeah, exactly.

[00:01:27] It's created by the people behind the Steam sort of platform for buying games online on your PC. Okay. And I saw it because they were celebrating the 25th anniversary of the Sims recently. Ah. And in a review of the new release of the updated version of the Sims so that it works on modern PCs,

[00:01:52] Lazy Game Reviewer mentioned that the only platform that he found it didn't keep crashing on was the Steam Deck. Right. Because the Steam Deck is so good at backwards compatibility. Ah. And it's great. It does everything. And I can play it anywhere, like just lounging on the sofa. I can just play old PC games. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I do like the portability of technology these days. Yeah.

[00:02:19] So I'm gaming again because I can do it just sort of casually here and there, like on my exercise bike anywhere. Right. Okay. Oh, okay. That's great. That's great. I recently bought a new synth. Surprise, surprise. It's actually, it's a Roland synth. It's my first Roland synth. And it's, it's, it's called, it's one of the boutique range.

[00:02:43] So they've kind of re-released a whole bunch of their older synths in a much smaller form factor. But it means it's really portable and I can, I can just like play it in bed or on the couch. And it's, it's like more inspiring, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And as inspiring as being inundated with figs? Yeah. I mean, so I already mentioned we had a lot of plums from our plum tree and now got a lot of figs from our fig tree.

[00:03:13] It's fig season, is it? Yeah. It's fig season. And I never used to like figs. I guess I never ate a properly ripe fig before because it was always dry and not very sweet. Whereas these are amazing. Like, and I'm picking like a bowl full of figs every day. So eating a lot of figs. I had it with ice cream yesterday, stewed with honey. And that was chef's kiss. Very good. Very good.

[00:03:43] But I might have to get some recipes for fig things to make very soon because I don't know how many figs I can eat. A lot of figs. You can't make them into jam or anything. I can. I can do a fig jam. I haven't done that yet. Or chutney or something. But yeah, I'll see. Meanwhile, what have our listeners been up to? Any fun things? Yes.

[00:04:11] So Eddie Coulter got in touch to respond to our Minnesota where we covered the sequel to Chud as an exclusive for our patrons. But the Chud. And Eddie said, Chud 2, but the Chud is to Chud as Return of the Living Dead Part 2 is to Return of the Living Dead. Yeah. I mean, it's basically a Return of the Living Dead sequel. An official sequel. It feels like it, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:40] And on Somewhere in Time, Al said, When I went to see I Am Legend, well before the lights went down, I realised that someone was playing the score from Somewhere in Time into the theatre. Which is a nice little Richard Matheson in-joke, whoever you were, PA person. Good work. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:05:02] I do really want to watch the original movies of I Am Legend, like Omega Man and the other one. I can't remember what that one is called. Yeah. There's a Charlton Heston one, I think, isn't there? Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'd like to check them out. I would. Yeah, me too. And finally, we heard from Serge of Cold Crash Pictures. Ooh, hello, Serge. Hello, Serge. And he said,

[00:05:27] My partner called Somewhere in Time the worst film that absolutely wrecked me. And I concur. How silly is this premise? What real world problem of the human heart is it speaking to? And why was I absolutely wrecked by the end credits? Yeah. It's definitely a tragedy. It is. It's so affecting. And he said,

[00:05:55] In all seriousness, I think the script is its weakest element, which usually translates into a bad film. But it's directed, scored and performed with such aching sincerity that it sort of won me over by the end. It got me to suspend my emotional disbelief, I guess. Oh, okay. I didn't mind. I actually quite like the script. I thought they had some really good lines in there. I think it's the best you could make out of this premise.

[00:06:20] As I said, it's such a flimsy, delicate balancing act, this sort of time travel fantasy. Yeah. Yeah. But you insert love in there and it just works every time. Well, yeah. Especially when you've got Jane Seymour and Christopher Reeve gazing at each other. Yeah. Yeah. I've noticed, I've watched quite a few sort of based on true, a true story or true events where it's basically a drama about something that happened.

[00:06:46] And it's like, oh, wow, that's quite strange or like interesting or incredible. But they always insert a love interest in there. They always insert some sort of romance that never existed in the true story. But it works every time. Of course, you've got to love the main character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So thanks everyone for getting in touch. We always love hearing from you. Yeah. We do. We do. We do. So Dan, what will we be talking about today?

[00:07:16] Oh, yes. Well, I will go get it. Oh, I'm on Mars, I think. It's very red. It's very dusty. Nice. Oh, and I can jump really well. Oh. That's very high. Yeah. I think the movie's on top of that rock over there. Hang on one second.

[00:07:46] Okay. Welcome back to Earth. Ah, yes, yes. And what do you have for us? Well, today we will be talking about the 2012 sci-fi fantasy action adventure movie, John Carter, directed by Andrew Stanton. And with a cast of Taylor Kitsch, Lynn Collins, Samantha Morton, Willem Dafoe, Thomas Hayden Church and Mark Strong. Ooh.

[00:08:15] And what happens in this movie? Yes. Well, set during the Civil War in the late 1800s, we followed John Carter. Overcome by the death of his wife and child, he vows to never fight again and instead to pursue the wealth of gold.

[00:08:31] During a skirmish involving the Confederate Army and the Native Americans, he stumbles on a mysterious cave, an even more mysterious blue light emitting amulet, which inexplicably transports him to Mars.

[00:08:47] There, he is faced with being able to jump really, really far, four-armed green-tusked aliens called Tarks and the Princess Dejo, who is set to wed the tyrannical leader of the warring enemy of her people, Sab San. Will our reluctant hero ever get back to Earth or will he have to solve a planetary war single-handedly? We'll find out.

[00:09:17] After the break. We will. And we're back. We got our ass to Mars and one of the most notorious box office failures in recent memory. Dan, had you seen this one before? Yeah, I had seen it.

[00:09:47] I hadn't seen it at the time, but I did watch it like a few years ago for the first time. And I was confused because it's a pretty decent film. Like, I don't know why it flopped so badly when it came out. And it's based on a story that's like 100 years old at the time. Yeah.

[00:10:07] The original idea of John Carter was written by Edgar Rice Burroughs in a story, A Princess of Mars, which I think the original story was just published in a magazine, All Story magazine, in February of 1912. And he had a pseudonym as well. He was Norman Bean. I think he was a bit ashamed of writing science fiction. But it became a big hit. Yeah.

[00:10:37] And he did end up writing a series of books. But that was, yeah, 1912 with its original publication. And I think the book, the first book came out in 1917. So it's like 100 years in the making because this movie came out in 2012, which is pretty incredible. It is. Yeah. So it was released on the 9th of March, 2012, which was to mark the centenary of the original character's appearance in that magazine. That serialized magazine.

[00:11:06] And it grossed $284 million worldwide on a $264 million budget. Holy. An estimated marketing costs of $350 million. Whoa. Disney took a $200 million write down within two weeks of the release. And it is still, adjusted for inflation, the biggest box office bomb of all time. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

[00:11:33] Ahead of the Lone Ranger in 2013, the Marvels of 2023, the 13th Warrior from 1999 and Mortal Engines of 2018. But I mean, it hovered around in the charts for about 16 weeks. When it opened, it did land in second place behind the Lorax. Ah, right. I don't know. Okay. To my mind, I think it's because March is such a weird time to release this movie. It feels like a summer movie.

[00:12:02] Whereas March, April time in this country is sort of Easter, half-term, holidays. It's kids' animation. So the Lorax feels more in keeping. Yeah. Yeah. So I saw this on Blu-ray around the time. And like you, I was baffled as to why there was such animosity towards it. Because all of the discourse around this was massive bomb, failure, embarrassing, shame, shame.

[00:12:32] It's like they were paraded through the streets and pelted with rotten lettuce. It really was vehemently hated, this movie. And I don't quite understand why. Yeah. I mean, it does have a lot of similarities to other movies like Dune and Star Wars. But it's, again, one of those times where this story's older than all of that. It's the same thing with that movie Solomon Kane that we talked about.

[00:13:02] Yeah, I was thinking that. It's older than Van Helsing and all of those other sort of very similar properties. If anything, John Carter inspired Star Wars. Like there are so many sort of similarities with the princess, like Princess Leia and Princess Deja. And you've got this kind of outsider that comes in and just, you know, stops the war between these huge countries of people, I guess. There's no water, so I guess there are no countries.

[00:13:31] Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how you would describe them. Yeah. I think it's races and very much divided along the lines of colours. They're referred to as green men and red men. And yeah, there's a touch of the eugenics about Edgar Rice Burroughs, unfortunately. But they've not really gone with that in this movie. It's much more based on tribal groups or warring nations rather than it being based on race necessarily. Yeah.

[00:14:00] I mean, I do feel like the sort of more human Martians are generally white people, I guess. Yeah. With red tattoos or something. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like they've taken sort of the Roman Greek aesthetic, the ancient Roman Greek aesthetic and the Egyptian aesthetic. It's sort of an ancient look to the people and just like kind of mashed it all together into this kind of hodgepodge of all civilizations. Yeah. Which I kind of liked.

[00:14:29] It had much more of a fantasy element to it rather than science fiction. Obviously, it's set on Mars. It's science fiction. But it did feel much more like almost like a Conan the Barbarian type story. Yeah. You're absolutely right. And I hadn't realized this until I read a bit about it, which is there is this whole theory that this is a separate genre of its own that's called planetary romance. So it's not science fiction or even space opera, which is Star Wars and so on.

[00:14:59] It's more the Flash Gordon branch of the genre. It's not interested in hardware, in spaceships, in laser battles. It's more interested in the traditional sword and sorcery and swashbuckling adventure and rescues and so on, which Star Wars has a bit of as well. Star Wars is a little bit of a unique mix of the two. Yeah.

[00:15:21] But it's basically a sword and sorcery thing, but just with sci-fi elements, which I always remember thinking when I watched Krull as a kid. Yes. I watched it and thought, this is a weird mix. How is this like a bit of a sci-fi movie with invading aliens? But it's also magic and princesses and warring factions. The guy from one family and the girl from another are marrying to try and settle the peace. And you think, this is odd and unique.

[00:15:49] But actually, it's all stemming from Princess of Mars, which predates all of them. So, yes, exactly like when we did Solomon Kane. The reason why so much of it feels redundant and over-familiar is because everybody else has raided the kitty before this got adapted. Yeah.

[00:16:07] And I think that's probably one of the problems that Disney faced is they were trying to shift away from the 90s, 80s movie star era, where you would go and see the latest Julia Roberts film, to the intellectual property era, where you go and see the latest movie in whatever franchise and who cares who's in it. But this IP is a bit old for people to know it, I think. Yes. Apart from real buffs. Yeah.

[00:16:34] It's a very similar thing that happened when we did The Shadow as well, because that got sort of panned as like, oh, this is a Batman copycat. But it's like The Shadow inspired Batman. It's older than Batman. So, it's just a bit unfortunate that this movie took so long to finally come out, because there were almost adaptations of this movie.

[00:16:59] So, in the 30s, the Warner Brothers animator Bob Clampett wanted to adapt it into an animated movie. And he did put out like test animations of some, and it looked kind of interesting. That would have been quite cool to see, like almost like Wizards or something like that. And then Jim Morris, the producer, in the late 80s was kind of attached to possibly adapt it. But again, it was late 80s.

[00:17:25] The scale of this movie doing practically would have been almost impossible. Like, there are some pretty epic scenes in this movie that you can only really do digitally. Oh, yeah, you're right. I think that's when, I think John McTiernan was attached to it with Tom Cruise potentially in the lead. I think that's what I was thinking of then. Yeah.

[00:17:49] I mean, I did read that Robert Rodriguez was attached at one point in sort of the early 2000s. Yeah. And then he quit. And then Jon Favreau was attached. And apparently it developed the movie for over a year before, I don't know what happened. It just fizzled and he went on to do Iron Man and do Marvel movies and stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, it's just been so long for this movie to finally come out. And I think it's a pretty good adaptation.

[00:18:19] We can talk about sort of some of the cliches of it. But for it to completely flop is a bit of a, I feel like it's so tragic. Yeah. Well, again, it's one of these things where you look at it and you think, did it really flop? I mean, 284 million worldwide is not a bad box office take. It's just that it was so expensive to do in the first place that it had to make a billion worldwide to bring in any money.

[00:18:45] And that's just so rare to achieve until you get into the Marvel heyday. Yes. Yes, of course. I mean, when you look at it, you can see why it was so expensive. There is a lot of CGI. There's a lot of VFX, like digital VFX. And a lot of stuff that I, well, I didn't think was sort of really possible in 2012 as well. Some of the things they achieved, like a lot of the scenes with the Tarks or the Tharks.

[00:19:15] I'm not sure how to pronounce it. And sort of the green, four armed green aliens. There's a lot of them, a lot of characters. And they're all digital. All the creatures, I'm assuming, are digital. The sort of salamander lizard dog that he befriends. Which I love, by the way. Such a cool character. Yeah. It's so funny how when you want a creature to be lovable, just imbue it with dog characteristics.

[00:19:43] And you're good. Like it's very similar to how to train your dragon. I think that it's more like a cat, right? Than a dog. They infuse it with both, I think. Yeah. Depending on what emotion they're trying to elicit from the audience at any given time. But yeah, both work really well. It's relatable, right? It is relatable. Because otherwise you have this like really weird, quite scary looking giant lizard with how many legs? Eight legs?

[00:20:13] I think it's six. Yeah. It's a lot more than normal animals, I guess. Which, yeah. But he's adorable. I love him. I love him. Yeah. But yeah, there's a lot of digital effects. Some of it doesn't quite age so well. I found some of the big aerial battle scenes look a little bit computer gamey. They do. Some of the wider shots of the landscape look a bit computer gamey as well. But the close-ups of the aliens I was really impressed with.

[00:20:43] Like that's some pretty amazing digital effects for 2012. Which was, you know, it was getting pretty good then. But it was still not as good as now. No, it builds on the amazing achievements that Weta made with Gollum, of course. Right. With Lord of the Rings. In actually bringing a digital character to life that you would believe in. Whose performance was nuanced and fascinating and evocative and compelling to watch.

[00:21:12] All, of course, built on Andy Serkis' work as the first sort of motion capture performer. Sure. And I think they did the same here, didn't they? I think Willem Dafoe and Samantha Morton, who played the two main Tharks. Yeah. I can't remember their names because the names in this movie, honestly. There's Taz Tarkus is Willem Dafoe's character. Who's sort of the chieftain when they meet him of the Tharks. Yeah.

[00:21:37] And Sola, who is secretly his daughter or his secret daughter. And I believe they were on set being shot on stilts. Right. With cameras on their faces recording their facial movements so that the animators could use it as reference. That's really interesting. Yeah. And because I think of the technology at the time in terms of rotoscoping and removing people, I think they had to do a clean pass of every shot. Right.

[00:22:07] So there's a lot of motion control going on with the cameras. And they're just repeating the same scene sort of two or three times for each take, maybe. Wow. Okay. So it took a long time. I think they were filming in London for like five months. And then I think they were off in the desert in Utah for months as well. So it was a long shoot. I mean, I feel like they pulled it off. Because I did find the scenes with John Carter and Sola and Taz Tarkus.

[00:22:35] Like they were quite emotional scenes. Like there is quite a lot of dialogue and a lot of sort of emotional weight in the acting and performance of those scenes that really worked for me. They're real characters in the same way as Gollum. In some ways, I feel as though we've gone backwards since then. Yeah. Because I'm not sure this much care and attention is put into realizing digital characters as they did around this time. Yeah. I feel the same.

[00:23:02] Like I'm constantly disappointed with digital characters these days. And it's really weird when you look at movies like this or like Pirates of the Caribbean. Where you've got like fully digital characters that look great. Really good. And the performances with the real characters, the human characters, look very convincing. It doesn't feel like they're just talking to a tennis ball on a stick or something. Yeah.

[00:23:31] And I think that's because of the effort that they put into this. And the two great performances that Taylor Kitsch is playing against. Yeah. I mean, you've got Willem Dafoe. I mean, his voice is like iconic. You could tell straight away. And also Samantha Mourland. I mean, she's like Oscar nominated, isn't she? Yeah. She's incredible as an actor. She is. So that leads us on to talking about our other actors. What did you think of Taylor Kitsch as our leading man? I mean, he's fine.

[00:24:01] I don't know. I mean, you could have inserted anyone there, I guess. I mean, he is one of those sort of, at the time, up and coming sort of young actors. Like, I feel like there were a ton of sort of YA properties that came out at the same time with up and coming actors that were wanting to be in the next big franchise. And I feel like, yeah, Taylor Kitsch is one of those. I don't really know him from anything at all.

[00:24:29] Like, I looked at his films and, I mean, he played Gambit in the X-Men Origins Wolverine movie, which is horrendous. And I know him. I think he is in Savages, which is a good movie. I can't really remember him in it. But Lynn Collins as well. I don't know. I did find both performances a little wooded. Just a tiny bit wooded. Just a tiny bit. Oh, I'll go further than that.

[00:24:59] I think both of them sucked. Yeah. Sorry. I think both of them are a, well, he's a charisma vacuum. Right. And it's weird because Andrew Stanton, the director, talks about hiring him on the basis of how compelling he was in Friday Night Lights, which is a series I've not seen. Oh, okay. I haven't seen that. And said that, you know, your eye is drawn to him and you're sort of really compelled to find out what happens to him next.

[00:25:23] In this, he just looks sulky and withdrawn and angry and brooding throughout the movie. I don't see an arc happening at all. I don't see a character that I like at all. He just looks like an asshole. Yeah. Yeah. Throughout the whole movie. And Lynn Collins, credit to her, she's an American. Her British accent is absolutely spot on. Right.

[00:25:49] Apparently, she completely fooled the British cast that largely makes up the rest of the ensemble. Right. Okay. She's great, but she comes across as really icy and aloof and unengaging. But I think she's also saddled with a pretty ridiculous role, which is this woman who, as per Edgar Rice Burroughs' original text, is the most beautiful woman in the universe.

[00:26:12] But in Andrew Stanton and Coe's rewriting of her, she's also like a scientist who's on the verge of cracking at a technology that's so advanced it seems godlike from their perspective. Yeah. And the most amazing fighter the world has ever seen who puts John Carter to shame on a regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. Do our farts even smell? This woman is just perfect. She's flawless. In every way. Yeah.

[00:26:41] I mean, I did find her character kind of confusing because, yes, she's very intelligent. She's very capable. She can handle a sword like anyone. But she's constantly getting saved by John Carter. That's true. He's constantly catching her in mid-year to the point where I'm like, I'm sure she can probably figure it out. She's falling. I'm sure she's amazing. She's amazing. She's like an acrobat.

[00:27:11] She's going to flip and land like hero pose. Like, I'm sure she's fine. But he's just constantly catching her and saving her to a point where she is a damsel, essentially, in the movie. Yeah. Even though she can fight really well. Yeah, you're right. But she only really utilizes it in like two scenes. She does. Yeah. Where she puts him to shame in one point, which we might talk about in the movie, please, which is good fun. And I think it's there for a reason.

[00:27:38] Andrew Stanton is trying to make, you know, a text that everybody can enjoy. And if you're luring women into the theatre to see this movie, they're there to see Taylor shirtless or a large proportion of them are. Some of them will be there to see Lynn Collins in various states of unrest, let's be honest. But they're there to see the romance of it. But they also don't want to see some wimpy woman being rescued. No. But that was endemic in the original text.

[00:28:07] They are damsel in distress stories. They are adventure stories. So they can't really get away from that structure, even though they try to imbue her with agency, even when she caves and agrees to the marriage with Sabtham or whatever his name is. Right, yeah. She's made a choice and she's doing it for the good of her people and so on. Yeah, sure. So they do their best to try and have it both ways. I know, I know.

[00:28:32] It's like, hey, she's a really strong independent woman, but she does need saving all the time. But she's still a strong independent woman. She is. I wanted to talk about some of the other characters. So we've got Mark Strong playing one of the ferns.

[00:29:00] So these are like these immortal beings that live on Mars. And you find out later on that big twist, I guess, or like spoilers, that they are essentially controlling or managing Mars. So they're managing the war and the battles and the people by inserting themselves into very similar to what's happening in the world right now. Yeah, they're the deep state, Dan.

[00:29:29] Yeah, they're not in charge, but they're just doing the little whispers in the background where they are essentially in charge. They've given this weapon to the enemy, which is just like so powerful. Oh, yeah. It's this thing that just eviscerates everything. Like, I don't know why they just don't kill everyone. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, so yeah, they've got the upper hand.

[00:29:58] And so, yeah, Mark Strong's character. What's his name? Well, this is the problem. Okay, we could talk about the naming problem. Yeah. So it's set in this fantasy science fiction world where everyone has strange names. And it's really hard to keep up with who's who in this movie because they say a name and I just respond with, who's that? I don't know what they're talking about.

[00:30:27] And what really adds to it is that it's not just their name, it's also their title or their role and the group of people that they are associated with. So you end up with Tars Tarkus, the Jeddak of the Tharks. And it's like, well, it's bloop blop blips of the Watsits. It's like, I don't know what that means. And you get so much of this. I think those Rebel Moon or whatever they're called. Oh, right.

[00:30:54] I think they were mocked for the same reason because you end up with Anthony Hopkins doing the opening narration. And it's when blar people who did the Tharkus of the slums and the Widgy Wadgets of the Snookums. And you're a knight of the realm. Why are you spewing out this shit? Yeah. And this film suffers from that too. Like the opening of this movie, God only knows what's going on. They've tinkered and tinkered and tinkered with it. I think it's across three different time spans in about five minutes.

[00:31:24] I haven't got a cat in hell's clue of what's going on at all. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how it works with movies or like properties like Lord of the Rings. Like everyone's got weird names in that. But how come that works? And in this movie, I'm struggling to keep up with what is being said and who's talking about who. And yeah, it's confusing. Yeah, it's really confusing.

[00:31:48] And I don't know if that's because Middle Earth has been imbued into the culture more, whereas this has been lost. Or if it's just excellent screenwriting on the part of Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens and Peter Jackson. Because the storytelling is great there. Here it really is lumpy. Yeah. It's a similar thing that happens in Dune as well. Like everyone has weird names. Apart from the main character who's just Paul. Paul.

[00:32:16] Which I always thought that was quite funny. Yeah. That everyone has strange names apart from Paul. You're right. You really do need something to hang on to, to situate yourself in these places. Otherwise, it just becomes a whole jumble of made up words. Yeah. The first 38 minutes of this movie as well, everybody's got subtitles because they're speaking their own language. Until somebody gives him the universal translator soup.

[00:32:45] After which, all of a sudden, he hears in English, which is lucky. Yeah. I mean, you kind of need it. I don't know. Yeah. I'm surprised when you watch a movie or see it on another planet and the entire, it's just subtitles the whole way. Yeah. It's brave. It doesn't really happen. No, not so much anymore. You sort of find a way to visually pass through a barrier.

[00:33:08] Like in The Hunt for Red October, where they do that beautiful thing where John McTiernan, again, where the camera pushes in on a Russian character's mouth and he switches to English and the camera pulls back out. And it's like, okay, we're done with the Russian now. Right, right, right. It's over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because otherwise you're not going to be able to follow this. Yeah. Yeah. So going back to the weird name. So Mark Strong's character, I'm looking it up now, his name is Matai Shang. Yes.

[00:33:36] I don't even remember recalling that name during the entire movie. No. But he is this, yeah, this all-powerful being that's whispering into the ear of Sab Than, played by Dominic West, who is the leader of the sort of enemy tribe of people, civilization. Yeah. And he's sort of controlling him, telling him what to do. And I kind of like that.

[00:34:01] I kind of like the sort of levels of power and who's actually in power kind of thing. Because at the end, then Mark Strong's character doesn't need him anymore and kills him. And it's just like, whoa, I didn't expect that. No. I mean, it would have helped if Dominic West's character had been established more as an enemy. He kind of vanishes for large portions of the movie. Yeah. We don't really know what his motivation is beyond conquest.

[00:34:29] There's nothing for him to hang on to. I mean, I don't actually like him as an actor. Oh, okay. Yeah. James Purifoy is in it too, speaking of Solomon Cain. Right. Yes. And he has more to do. He's more sort of enjoyable than it because he's quite funny in the scenes that he's in. Is he? Who does he play? So he's Cantos Can the Odwar of the ship Zavarian. So good luck with that. Okay.

[00:34:55] He's one of the princess's loyal men who has that fun scene with John Carter where they break out of prison and he's sort of like whispering to him, take me hostage, take me hostage. John Carter's a bit slow on the uptake. So he's quite fun, James Purifoy. Right. Yes. Yes. But yeah, Mark Strong makes more of an impression as these sort of mysterious Thurn character that's manipulating everything.

[00:35:22] Whereas Dominic West's villain is just sort of vaguely mustache twirling and evil with the blue laser of death that he doesn't really use. Yeah. I quite like the Thurn characters as well. And there's a lot of unexplained things. I mean, they're immortal. They've got the blue amulets and they've got that other, was it the same blue amulet? But it seems to be able to do many things. They can teleport. They can shapeshift.

[00:35:48] They can appear like other people but appear like themselves to other people. Yeah. They can travel to Earth. And there seems to be lots of Thurns on Earth as well. Because we can talk about the end a bit later. But yes, John Carlo goes back to Earth and he wants to go back to Mars and he has to find another Thurn, find another amulet. So I like that kind of mystery. Like that's really, it's very intriguing to me. Were they aiming for a sequel to this movie?

[00:36:18] Oh yeah. This movie does feel to me like very cliche, but more of a, hey, let's establish this world first. And we'll just pull all the cliches because everyone can understand that. And then in the next movie we can go off and do what we actually want to do. Because it does feel like they've set it up for like many, many more movies. Oh, it absolutely was. Yeah. It was set up as the first of a trilogy.

[00:36:44] And it's got one of those commentary tracks that's really quite tragic to listen to because it's the producers and the director. Right. And it was clearly recorded right at the end of post-production and before the movie came out. So they're just sat there talking so enthusiastically about what they believe is a masterpiece franchise starter. Yeah. And all the wonderful things that they're going to do in the next movie. Right.

[00:37:11] Because they bought the rights to the first three Edgar Rice Burroughs books and they were all set to go and just keep building on this world. And, of course, it was just an unmitigated disaster. At least it was presented as such. So, yeah, it was cancelled immediately. Wow. So another Solomon Cain situation. Exactly. Because they wanted a trilogy, right? Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:37:35] All of these people thinking they had an IP that was just so fundamental to the culture that people would immediately love it and want more of it. But it turned out that Disney had just backed the wrong horse. But, of course, the thing that Favreau went on to do next, Iron Man, would show them the right path because Marvel turned out to be incredibly profitable for them during phases one, two and three. Yeah, for sure. Now it's time for Random Trivia. Okay, it's trivia time.

[00:38:05] Conrad, what juicy tip has been teleported or telegrammed to you today? Well, it's a very British one. So this was shot in London, apart from the location shooting, all in Utah.

[00:38:21] And when they needed a space to house the set for the temple that she gets married in at the end of the movie and is the beginning of the big battle scene in the finale, there wasn't a studio space big enough for it in the UK at the time. So they actually filmed it inside an abandoned Woolworths distribution centre. Ah, wow. Just on the outskirts of London.

[00:38:48] Because Woolworths, a much beloved British chain of retail stores, had just tanked in 2009. So all of its buildings were now empty. Ah. So yeah. So it was shot in a Woolworths building. Oh, right. Is Woolworths like a department store?

[00:39:09] So it was a retail chain that did, it was sort of like a newsagents, but also with suites and clothes and toys and videos and music CDs. Ah. And of course, Amazon just killed it. Killed it dead. Right, right. Yeah. All right. Let's add trivia. It is. I did want to talk about some of the things I loved about this movie.

[00:39:38] So the idea of travelling to Mars was explained. And it's really interesting. So he describes it as like a telegram. So he's essentially a copy of himself. Yeah, that's weird, isn't it? He's sent his sort of soul or like being into a copy of himself on Mars. While his original body is just, I don't know, dormant on Earth, just passed out. Yeah.

[00:40:08] And his being is now on Mars as this copy. It's really interesting. It is. It's bizarre. And his nephew, Edgar Rice Burroughs, is left holding the bag, guarding his motionless, soulless body, I guess, in a crypt. Yeah. After he's apparently faked his own death. Yeah. I don't know. It's not really explained in any great detail. It's just sort of dropped there and left.

[00:40:33] So I was intrigued by it and wanted to know more and how that would play out. But they didn't really go there. I thought it was a great concept, though, because they could have just gone with like, oh, he's just teleported to Mars. That's the easy route to go with. Like, it's a magical amulet. It just teleports people. But yeah, the sort of copy idea is really interesting.

[00:40:55] Another thing I did love about this movie is when John does arrive on Mars, he realizes he is essentially Superman. He's like Clark Kent. So Clark Kent is normal on Krypton. But when he gets to Earth, everything's different. The gravity is different. And he suddenly has powers. And so John Carter can jump really far on Mars. And you think, oh, that's kind of a dumb ability.

[00:41:24] But it's really helpful in many, many situations. And it's something I've just never seen before. Yeah. Just the ability to jump really good. Yeah. And of course, it's how Clark Kent learns how to fly. So a lot of people have posited that Superman is based on this as well. That John Carter of Mars is not only the birth of science fantasy and Star Wars and Flash Gordon and everything that came after it, but also of superhero stories as well.

[00:41:53] Ah, right. Wow. Yeah. Because it's such a great ability to have on Mars as well. Because everyone's just gobsmacked by how he's able to do this. Yeah. Because they're just walking around like normal. Well, there's also the scene where he punches a thark in the face and kills him. And that's right. So he's stronger than they are as well. Because of density or pressure or something, I think is the fantasy physics of it. Yeah. He breaks out of the chains at one point just by brute strength. Yeah.

[00:42:22] I did notice they're constantly breaking chains. Like to transport prisoners, they chain them up. And then to move them, they just break the chain with a sword. Right. And I'm thinking, God, there must be just like bits and pieces of chains everywhere. You can't. Why aren't you reusing these chains? Why do you have to break them every time? Just unlock the clasp? What are you doing? It's not a very sustainable approach. No, you're right. No. Yeah.

[00:42:51] But yeah, I really like that sort of aspect of John Carter being on Mars, having like extra abilities. Yeah. And again, it's something that's not, I don't know, it doesn't feel like it's explored or at least not in him. That's the thing that I have a problem with is that he seems fairly unmoved by or unimpressed with anything throughout the entire movie. And yet he's supposed to be on this arc that the writers of the film have imposed upon Edgar

[00:43:18] Rice Burroughs' original piece, which is that he's this scarred character because his wife and child were murdered in some previous conflict. And that's made him wary of getting involved in conflicts again. Whereas I think there was none of that in the original book. Right. And so they try to imbue it with this emotional arc for him to go on and to give him a renewed sense of purpose. And at the same time, I'm thinking about this character that discovers he's on another planet,

[00:43:48] discovers that he has superhuman capabilities in this environment. And on Taylor Kitsch's face, nothing, just nothing throughout the whole movie. There's this key scene in the middle that's like the director refers to it as the turn, which is where they have this scene where he's murdering like hundreds of people single-handedly. And they're cross-cutting between that and him burying his dead wife and child.

[00:44:16] And Michael Giacchino's score is going hell for leather with the emotion, the terrible tragedy of this, that despite this terrible thing that happened to him, he's compelled to stand up for what is right again. And I just watched it and felt nothing, just nothing at all. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. I do think you're right. I think the arc doesn't work because it feels like a non-arc. Like, I feel like all the elements are on screen. Yeah, they are.

[00:44:46] But I guess the performance of Taylor Kitsch just doesn't pull it off. No. He is this guy that has lost his family and he's just like fed up with the world. All he wants to do is find his gold and just be rich with gold. And then he lands on the planet, on Mars, and he's still supposed to be that sort of selfish guy, right? Intent on just gold. Yeah. And he just wants to go back to Earth to find gold.

[00:45:14] But then he does help people. Like, that's the thing as well. If he didn't help anyone when he first gets to Mars, then you would think, okay, he's like a despicable loser. And then you have an arc. You have somewhere to go from. But he does help people. He does sort of good deeds. And you think, oh, you're not, I don't know. Yeah. There isn't a clear arc. He's kind of like middle ground all the way through until that moment you were mentioning

[00:45:42] with where he murders hundreds and hundreds of Tarks. Yeah. And you're supposed to go, yay. Well, not yay, but sort of, oh, I don't know what you're supposed to feel. I was also confused by that scene because I thought, is he just murdering all those people that he made friends with before? But it's a different tribe, right? It's not the same tribe as Soler's and Willem Dafoe's tribe. It's a different tribe. Because I didn't really establish that.

[00:46:11] I thought there was only one tribe of Tarks. No, there's more. There's factions within factions within factions. Right. And it's very, very difficult to follow. Yes. If you can't really situate yourself within the story, it's going to be very hard to feel anything for it. And I think that's where I ultimately landed, which is looks pretty. I don't feel anything. Right. I did feel things.

[00:46:37] Like, I also thought it's funny that we do this movie straight after Somewhere in Time because it has a similar ending where he goes on this, yeah, big hero's journey. He meets the Tarks and he saves the princess. And then he resolves a war. And the bad guy's killed. And then Mark Zerong's character comes back, shoves an amulet at him and says, Jasum, which is the name for Earth.

[00:47:07] And he gets whisked back to Earth. And it's just devastating. It's like Somewhere in Time all over again where it's like, no, you can't do that. Yeah. But at least she doesn't go, jaw. He doesn't just stare out a window for a week and just die. No. He spends 10 years trying to find an amulet to go back to Basu. Yes. Yeah. So at least there is sort of the hopeful ending.

[00:47:37] But yeah, before then I was just like, goddammit movie. Don't do this to me. Yeah. That might be the one part of it that works. They try really hard to get you to care about the romance. You know, they have a proposal. They have a wedding. It's almost Shakespearean, the finale. Yeah. And then tear them apart. But I don't know. I didn't feel any kind of chemistry between these two characters. Oh, I did a little bit. Yeah. I do agree it wasn't perfect. And yeah, a bit wooden.

[00:48:06] But I wanted it to happen, I think. I think on paper it would have worked. Just maybe not quite on screen. But I think it had all the right elements in there. Oh, yeah. I think on paper it has all the right elements. It's just one of those cases where you put them all together. And no matter how many reshoots you do, which they had several, and no matter how much tweaking you do, it's just not there.

[00:48:32] It's really hard to make a movie and it's almost impossible to make a good one. And there's some sort of ineffable quality that just brings a movie to life. Sure, sure, sure, sure. It's not here. I guess we should talk about music. Michael Giacchino, I think that's how you put it. I'm not sure. Yeah. I've always said Giacchino and I'm probably wrong. Yeah. I always do love his scores. He has this way of making it sound really huge and cinematic and epic, but with a lot of warmth.

[00:49:02] I always find his scores have a lot of warmth. Yeah. I think it's his chord progressions and his melodies. And it's so nice to hear melodies. I remember in 2009, I think I went to see Star Trek, the first of the sort of new Kelvin series of Star Trek movies. Yes. And I remember walking out of the theatre having watched the credits to see who the composer was because I was just so thrilled after years and years of Hans Zimmer,

[00:49:31] Media Ventures, remote control, chugga, chugga, chugga, boring crap, to hear a theme that I was humming. Yeah. I was actually walking out of the theatre humming a theme. I don't think he quite manages it here with the John Carter theme, but it's good. He's got a theme for John Carter. He's got a theme for Mars, I think. Yeah. And it's big, instrumentally interesting, powerful stuff. Again, on paper, he's doing all the things he does. Yeah.

[00:49:59] But it's sort of in service of something that's not quite working. But it's beautiful music. He's always been very talented. I always love to see what he does next. Yeah. I do feel like he's one of the few current regular composers that has a sort of older approach to music and film scoring. Like, he is very thematic. Yeah. I definitely feel like he has so many themes and so many cues.

[00:50:27] And it doesn't ever feel like he's trying to copy another composer as well. No. Like, even though his music is very diverse, like, I've heard, like, I'm pretty sure he did the Incredibles soundtrack, that animated movie. And that's very, like, bombastic and, like, spy sounding. Like, it sounds like a 007 theme almost. Yeah. And sort of jazzy as well. So, he's got a lot of range. He has, yeah. And he did a Mission Impossible movie as well.

[00:50:56] Again, the first live action movie for a director who'd previously worked only in animation. So, instead of Andrew Stanton on this movie, it was Brad Bird who did the Mission Impossible. I think it's Ghost Protocol. I forget which one's which. It's the one with the Burj Khalifa. So, yeah. He's really good at picking up the sort of musical language and instrumental style of a particular genre. But then making music that is just pure Giacchino. You just listen to it and think, yeah, it's Michael again.

[00:51:26] It's great. Yeah. Yeah. I love him. I love him. We do have to mention, yeah, Andrew Stanton. Like, all his other movies are animated movies. Yeah. He did A Bug's Life, co-directed it. Finding Nemo, WALL-E, and Finding Dory. And then, before Finding Dory, he did John Carter. It's a big leap. So, maybe, I don't know. I don't know what it's like directing an animated movie as opposed to directing a live action.

[00:51:55] Surely hugely different. Yeah, you would think so. Then there was a lot of debate at the time as to whether attempting to apply a Pixar methodology to a live action movie might have caused the overspend and the downfall. Because they are so used to working on story and reworking and reanimating. Right. For years and years and years. And, of course, they'd had 12 classic hits up until this point. I mean, right up until Finding Nemo.

[00:52:23] It had just been masterpiece after masterpiece after a bug's life. Maybe not. But, you know, fantastic. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, off a cliff. And I think he's directing Toy Story 5 right now. Right. But he does have another live action movie coming up. Okay. In the blink of an eye, a science fiction drama starring Kate McKinnon. Oh. Okay. So, he isn't completely in movie jail. They've let him do it again. So, we shall see. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:52] I mean, I've seen he's done a lot of episodes in TV. Right. So, maybe he's, I don't know, doing that more. I don't know. Yeah. Well, he seems to think that the skills he learned on Pixar did not cause him problems on live action. In fact, he enjoyed the spontaneity of it. That you could, instead of waiting a few months to see something rendered, an actor could do it in front of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Or not in the case of Taylor Kidd.

[00:53:23] Coming to you live from the Movie Oobliet Theatre, it's the prestigious Moobly Awards. It's Moobly Awards time. It's where we nominate our favourite long distance jumping parts of the film in a number of magical amulet categories. Best quote. My favourite quote in the movie comes right at the end when John Carter says,

[00:53:50] John Carter of Mars sounds much better. Which I think is deeply ironic because the executives at Disney didn't think that they deliberately took Of Mars off of the title of the movie because they thought it would frighten all of the women away. I think they were wrong. I think John Carter of Mars is much more appealing than just John Carter. John Carter doesn't explain anything.

[00:54:19] It doesn't say it's a sci-fi or a fantasy or anything. Like, it just sounds like, oh, is it an action movie? Is it a drama? Like, it doesn't have any connotations whatsoever. No. And it's the most boring name as well. It's not even an interesting name. Like, Lemony Snicket. You're not sort of, like, drawn to figure out who's John. John Carter sounds like my plumber. It doesn't sound interesting at all. Yeah, exactly.

[00:54:44] Well, my favourite quote from the movie is, it's an exchange where when John Carter first introduces himself to the Tharks. Or the Tarks. I'm still unsure how to pronounce their names. And he says, he introduces himself as John Carter from Virginia. But they don't understand English. And they mistakenly think his name is Virginia. And I love how they pronounce it as well.

[00:55:13] This is Virginia. And henceforth, they just refer to him as Virginia. It's great. Best hair or costume? I have noticed in sort of these fantasy sci-fi adventure movies where there are only two options for costumes.

[00:55:36] You either go the Amazonian Roman gladiatorial Xena leather strap costumes, which John Carter has gone with. Or you go with robes, which June has gone with. And most of Star Wars. Yes, that's true. There are only two costumes in these types of movies. But I mean, one costume I do want to point out is Deja's wedding dress, which is like very revealing.

[00:56:06] But it is pretty opulent. It's like silk. There's like gold bits and lots of jewels. It's very sort of ancient Egyptian looking. Yeah. And I love the way that they had to design all of the costumes so that they would complement all of her tattoos as well. Because her body is covered with these red henna tattoos. Yeah. That's right. That's right. For me, I really like Mark Strong's outfit as Matai Shang, one of the therns.

[00:56:36] Because, yeah, he went the robe route. Yes. So he's wearing this amazing robe where all of it, it seems to be almost solid. It doesn't flow. And it has all of these sort of folds in it that sort of gather inwards, inwards. It's very snuggly and very comfortable. Yeah. But it sort of looks like musculature, oddly enough. It looks like sort of strands of muscles. But, yeah, it just looks very cosy. I'd like to knock about in one of those at the weekend. Yeah. Oh, yes, yes, it does.

[00:57:08] Most 2010s moment. I was going to say attempts to start franchises based on a popular intellectual property. Ah, that's what I was going to say, too. Yeah. At the death of the movie star. So they deliberately did not go for big names in this movie because they felt they didn't need it. Because John Carter, everybody knows John Carter. Of course they did. And, yeah, that didn't work.

[00:57:37] But, of course, they hit the jackpot with Marvel immediately afterwards. So I guess all fine for Disney. Although it's not going so well at the moment. But never mind. Yeah. Favourite scene. So my favourite scene is Woola. Because I love Woola. Is that the lizard dog? The lizard dog, yeah. Ah, so that's its name. I did not catch that. Yes. He is absolutely adorable.

[00:58:04] The first time John Carter meets him, John Carter is trapped in a pit somewhere. Ah, yes. And this creature emerges and it looks kind of strange and threatening. So he jumps to get away from it. So he jumps to get away from it and lands on a ledge. And he looks down to check where the monster is and it's not there anymore. And he looks back and there's Woola looking like an enthusiastic pug that's really pleased with himself. Yeah. And you don't know how he's got there so fast. So John Carter jumps again.

[00:58:34] Mm-hmm. And you just see this motion blur of him appearing right in front of him. And he looks down and he sees this sort of trail of dust where he's been running. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's so fast. And that scene just, it is so Pixar. It is so imbued with that. That's true. Beautiful visual storytelling that immediately endears you to a new character. And I absolutely loved it.

[00:59:01] I want a whole movie of just Woola because he's great. I love him as well. Yeah, definitely would say every scene with him in it. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Most cliche moment. A hero in a new world has to compete in an arena. Ah, well, yes. It does kind of come later on in the movie as well. It's kind of unexpected. Like you expect that to be at the start where he has to prove his mettle.

[00:59:30] But it's kind of right, it's almost before the third act, which is kind of a strange place to put it. Yeah, it is. It's very odd. But it just crops up everywhere in these movies. So Tron and Tron Legacy, Escape from New York, Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome, of course. Yes. Arena, which is one of the movies in that box set I got. Oh, right, right, right. We haven't done yet. Yeah. Attack of the Clones, which this looks a lot like. Yes. Very, very similar.

[01:00:00] And Doomsday, which we've covered. Real Steel, The Hunger Games, of course. And most recently, Thor Ragnarok and Dune Part 2. Yes. Yes. Best special effect. I got to say Willa, the salamanded lizard dog. He's like the best. He's a really great effect. Like, the fact that he has so much emotion and character in his face and just the fact that he runs really fast is great.

[01:00:28] And his whole design, like there's a lot of detail in his mouth as well. It's a great creature. Yeah. They put a lot of effort into it. All of this work was done by Double Negative in London under the direction of Peter Chang, who's the visual effects supervisor. Oh, okay. He started out on Krull, oddly enough. Oh, wow. Okay. Right. Long, long time ago. Yeah.

[01:00:53] No, Willa is amazing as an achievement because although I said, you know, it's very Pixar in terms of its visual storytelling, in terms of design, it's completely convincing as a physical creature that's on the scene that can stand next to human actors and hold his weight, you know, hold the scene. It's amazing. Amazing. But, like, sort of recognizable. Like, it still kind of looks like a creature from Earth, but it is still weird looking.

[01:01:22] Like, it's still definitely an alien creature as well. Yeah, definitely is. Favorite sound effect. I thought the third nanotechnology in that scene where they go into the, like, the mysterious place where the display. Oh, the structure. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I did. I noted that down, too. Yeah. It's beautiful because it's kind of crisp, but it's not digital or synthesized.

[01:01:49] You just have this sense of lots of tiny little metallic things clicking together, but at the same time that they have some sense of being organic and purposeful behind them. Yes. Yes. I loved it. I thought it was great. I think you're right. Yeah. It wasn't sort of science fiction-y, glitchy sounding. It was much more physical, like sand or something. It was really interesting. Yeah. I liked it. You got a real sense of an intelligence behind it. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:17] Like, it was sort of an organism that was growing and extending. Yeah. I love the way that the princess says, this isn't magic. Ah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. My favorite sound. Going back to Willa, I did love Willa's sounds because they've gone with the dog sounds, but they've made them different and weird. So, at one point it does bark, but it's a really meaty textured bark. I don't know.

[01:02:48] It's very great, clever sound design where it's familiar, but alien at the same time. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like it's any animal that exists, but it sounds right. But it resembles a dog. It's like the closest thing that you immediately think of, even though it doesn't sound like a dog. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, very well done. Yeah. Most funniest moment. Something that you've mentioned already, actually.

[01:03:16] The scene where the princess is trying on her wedding dress, or you see her in her wedding dress for the first time. And she says, it's traditional zadangan worn by the groom's mother, I'm told. It's a little vulgar for my taste, but my opinions are about to become irrelevant. Right. Yes. Wow. Wow. So one moment where I thought this character really came to life because you got a sense of who she was.

[01:03:43] And also her keen observation and intelligence about what is going to happen to her if she becomes this man's bride. Yeah. Yeah. She will lose all autonomy. Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. She is. She's intelligent. She knows what's going on. Oh, yeah. She's very, very sharp and quite witty. And it's the one moment you get that ready. Yeah. Yeah. My funniest moment is also with Deja. It's when John Carter's trying to make a promise to her. And so he prompts her to shake his hand.

[01:04:12] And she doesn't know what that means. So she literally does it. So she picks up his hand with her fingertips and just wiggles it around. And that's how Moobly's. It is. Hi, this is Duncan Skiles, director of The Clofitch Killer, and you're listening to Movie Oubliette.

[01:04:40] It is Final Verdict's time. Should Disney's 2012 sci-fi epic John Carter be resurrected once more from its forgotten grave and be thrust into the energy-giving light of Mars to be adored? Or should it be eviscerated with a Martian blue laser weapon and be teleported back down into Oubliette never spoken of again? Conrad. John Carter, did it really deserve to be such a big flop?

[01:05:09] I don't think it deserved to be as lambasted as it was. And I think there was a huge narrative around this, much like Waterworld, that was all about, you know, it going over budget and being too expensive. And what a disaster. Shame on Disney. I don't think it really deserved that. It's a very finely crafted movie where a lot of effort and thought has been put into bringing this great piece of landmark science fiction to life in a faithful way that everybody could enjoy.

[01:05:37] And to set up a franchise. There's so much detail. There's so much great work in the special effects and the character animation, the performances. Apart from our two leads. And that's where it falls down for me because I'm just not emotionally engaged in this movie because the two leads are wooden as hell. And I really don't buy it. Well, I don't think she has an arc, but I don't buy his arc at all. And it's just needlessly complicated with all of the world building.

[01:06:07] All of it is quite alienating. So ultimately, I think the film achieved what it wanted to. I think all the on paper, as we've said, all the elements are there. But it just doesn't work. So on that basis, I'm going to say no. I think there are films. I don't think it deserved the pasting that it got, but I still don't think it works. So I think it's in the Oobliet for a reason.

[01:06:36] But I think I'm in the minority. Well, I really enjoyed it when I first watched it. And I was completely confused why people hated it so much when it came out. I do think revisiting it now, it does come across as very predictable and cliche. In terms of if you've watched any Hero's Journey fantasy adventure movie, this is just recycling all of that.

[01:07:06] You've got your reluctant outsider hero that comes in, falls in love with a princess and saves the day at the end and stops a war. I don't know. I've seen that many times. But you also have to note that this property of John Carter came out before any of those movies even came into fruition.

[01:07:28] So this is the godfather of that genre and that sort of template of fantasy sci-fi adventure movies. So I don't know. I think this movie works for me. There are lots of it that I love. I love the fact that he gets powers on Mars. I like the sort of idea of him transported to Mars. I really enjoyed the world building. Like it's impressive.

[01:07:55] I think I would have to watch it a few more times to just understand who the hell is anyone in this movie. But I really enjoyed the world building. Like it is very akin to Dune. Like it did feel very similar. And Dune surely was influenced by John Carter. Sort of the original idea of John Carter. It feels very similar. Same sort of desert planet. I don't know. I would highly recommend this movie.

[01:08:25] I think it's unfortunate that it was criticized when it came out. I think it's a great movie. Despite the word in acting. Okay. Well, we better check and see what our patrons thought because they have the casting vote this time. Oh, yes, yes. Hello, Gary. Hello. Can we have the patrons vote, please? Now playing Satan's Goat by the Ninjas on Spotify.

[01:08:54] No patrons vote, honestly. Oh, not this again. Voice recognition is terrible. They thought you should set it free. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. On the whole, people agree with you. John Carter. It's a CGI mess with too many characters and storylines, and I love every frame of it. I read all the books when I was 12, and just like the rest of the world, quickly forgot about A Princess of Mars.

[01:09:22] This series is the basis of most sci-fi for over a hundred years, says Chazilla. Oh, yeah. I was going to say, who's it there? Yeah. Yeah. So, I can't disagree with all of that. I think it's very true. Jasmine says, this Pluto Nash-sized bomb couldn't possibly have been more of a disaster for Disney, and I find that it's very hard for me to feel sorry for its failure. Overly long, difficult to follow.

[01:09:51] Everyone involved should have known better than to sink so many resources into this. The only good thing I can say is that at least it wasn't the melodramatic mess that is 2015's Jupiter ascending. I know that, again, I'll be in the minority, but I say teleport John Carter of Mars beyond the Kuiper belt. Wow. So that it's out of the view of any telescope. Yes. Yeah.

[01:10:21] So, there are lots of views, but overall, 70% said set it free. Oh, okay, okay. Well, let's set it free. Yes. Goodbye. Leap away, John Carter. You just said it. Bye. So, Conrad, what's on the agenda for next episode? Well, we put it to a patron's vote and gave them a selection of aquatic-themed films. Oh, okay.

[01:10:45] Yeah, I gave them Shockwaves, The Final Countdown, Virus, Deep Rising and Ghost Ship. And it was a very close-run thing. Oh, yes. But in the end, they went with the 1980 American science fiction war film, The Final Countdown. Mmm. I've heard lots of things about this movie, but I've never seen it. I don't really know what it's about.

[01:11:14] But I think there's time travel. I think there's time travel involved and an aircraft carrier and Kirk Douglas. So, it's quite the combo. We haven't seen him since Saturn 3. Saturn 3, yes. Or the Fury. Hopefully not rolling around naked. Fingers crossed. Yeah. Yes. So, can't wait for that. Oh, good choice, patrons.

[01:11:41] And listeners, if you want to keep up to date with all our episodes, you can follow us on all platforms as Movie Oubliette. And you can email us at movie.oubliette at gmail.com. Yes. And if you want to support the show, head on over to Patreon, where, for as little as a dollar, you can nominate films and listen to extended portions of the show and get access to all kinds of goodies. Yes. Yes. We have merchandise and Redbubble, a YouTube channel, and also please review and rate us if you haven't already.

[01:12:10] It does help us out a lot. And yes, that's it for another episode, Conrad, right? It is indeed. Yeah. Until next time, bassoon. Or jazoo. Or jazoo. Yeah. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.

[01:12:39] You let me know when it gets dangerous.