Jabberwocky (with Rob Hill)

[00:00:00] Welcome to Movie Oubliette, the film review podcast for movies that most people have mercifully forgotten.

[00:00:10] I'm Dan and I'm Conrad and in each episode we drag a forsaken film out of the Oubliette.

[00:00:17] Discuss it and judge it to decide whether it should be set free

[00:00:22] or whether it should be thrown back and consigned to oblivion forever.

[00:00:30] Movie Oubliette, movie review the films others tend to forget.

[00:00:36] Come with us and let's run up the Movie Oubliette.

[00:00:40] Well met listener and welcome to episode 144 of Movie Oubliette,

[00:00:47] the bi-hemispherical podcast for forgotten fantastical films with me, Conrad.

[00:00:52] Enjoying a sci-fi movie season in my local cinema in Cambridge, UK.

[00:00:57] And me, Dan, just melting down here in Melbourne Australia.

[00:01:02] We focus on forgotten fantasy sci-fi and horror films because we love public urination, love spuds

[00:01:11] and monsters that suck all the meat off your bones except your face.

[00:01:15] Hello Dan.

[00:01:18] The face is the worst part.

[00:01:20] It is.

[00:01:21] We all know that.

[00:01:22] It's just gristle.

[00:01:26] Stubbly, but you know, oh, teeth.

[00:01:28] Yeah.

[00:01:29] Who wants to eat teeth?

[00:01:30] Yeah, nose is terrible.

[00:01:34] So what movies have been playing at your local cinema?

[00:01:38] Yeah, it's really weird.

[00:01:39] They've just decided to put on 2001 interstellar.

[00:01:45] I didn't go and see 2001 because I don't know, I'm just a bit over that one.

[00:01:50] I did enjoy going to see interstellar in the theatre because I didn't see it on the big screen at the time.

[00:01:56] And the sound design of that is just phenomenal.

[00:02:00] It's such an experience on the big screen.

[00:02:03] Yeah, it's pretty intense.

[00:02:05] It does, yeah, especially during that famous spinning docking sequence,

[00:02:09] which got an applause in the theatre.

[00:02:12] People love that sequence.

[00:02:16] But what was interesting is with my local cine world,

[00:02:19] they actually moved it from screen three, which is kind of a small screen to screen one,

[00:02:25] because so many people wanted to see it.

[00:02:28] And we are Madame Webb, the latest Spider-Man spinoff.

[00:02:33] It's relegated to a small screen.

[00:02:36] Yeah, yeah, Madame Webb is not doing so well in the box office.

[00:02:42] No, it's not.

[00:02:43] So yeah.

[00:02:44] And so they're following up with Blade Runner, Blade Runner 2049.

[00:02:48] Oh, great.

[00:02:49] I think that's it.

[00:02:50] Yeah, so I'm looking forward to both of those.

[00:02:52] Oh, they're all classics.

[00:02:53] They are.

[00:02:54] Interestingly, they're also showing Monty Python and the Holy Grail for its 44 and a half anniversary or something.

[00:03:02] It's not really an anniversary.

[00:03:03] It's just something silly, which might be relevant for today.

[00:03:07] Oh, maybe.

[00:03:08] Maybe.

[00:03:09] So you're melting.

[00:03:11] Oh, yeah.

[00:03:12] I mean, it's just Australia.

[00:03:14] That's fine.

[00:03:19] Yeah, meanwhile, have our listeners been chatting to us?

[00:03:25] They have, yes.

[00:03:26] So we have a new patron, Erin.

[00:03:28] Hello, Erin.

[00:03:29] Thanks for supporting the show.

[00:03:31] Thanks for the support.

[00:03:32] And we have people who are rediscovering old episodes.

[00:03:35] So we had a comment about Rogue, the crocodile movie.

[00:03:40] Yeah, that was a killer croc movie.

[00:03:42] Yeah.

[00:03:43] And because of the director, LisaMD23 said, I'd steered clear simply because I found Wolf Creek so disturbing,

[00:03:52] but I'm really glad you persuaded me to check this out.

[00:03:55] I have a real soft spot for creature features, and that usually means embracing a lot of cheesiness and bad acting.

[00:04:02] But this was refreshingly high quality on every count.

[00:04:06] Yeah, it really was.

[00:04:07] Really was.

[00:04:08] Yeah, I'm tempted to watch all three or maybe there are four Aussie killer croc movies just to compare them all.

[00:04:16] But yeah, I think they're mostly going to be bad.

[00:04:19] But I don't know.

[00:04:20] Maybe I'll be surprised.

[00:04:21] Yeah, you never know.

[00:04:22] There might be some more gems hidden in there.

[00:04:24] Well, we didn't find a gem in Shackma, but people are still talking about it.

[00:04:31] Mostly about the star of the show, Typhoon the Baboon.

[00:04:35] About whom John Michael Rouse said, he's cute in the fly before he turned inside out.

[00:04:42] Oh God, yeah.

[00:04:45] Yeah, not great.

[00:04:47] Dustin Rathman said typically behind the door, so all those scenes where he's like bashing against the door all the time.

[00:04:54] Dustin says behind the door was a female baboon, so Typhoon wasn't angry.

[00:05:00] He was excited.

[00:05:02] And if you happen to look closely, you can see just how excited he was as he was trying to get through that door.

[00:05:10] Really?

[00:05:11] Oh God, yeah.

[00:05:13] Yeah, apparently.

[00:05:14] Yeah, horny.

[00:05:16] Yeah, I noticed when I was doing some socials for TikTok, there's a scene at the inn where he like pees on the ground.

[00:05:24] You can see him peeing and it's not very scary.

[00:05:29] No, no.

[00:05:31] Again peeing, that might come up in today's episode too.

[00:05:34] Oh yeah.

[00:05:37] Eddie Coulter said, Typhoon's in another movie called Order of the Black Eagle where you not only see him wearing a tux and flying an ultralight plane,

[00:05:47] you also get to see him drive a baboon sized tank and blow up a camp full of Nazis.

[00:05:54] What?

[00:05:55] What is this movie?

[00:05:57] I really do not know, but it sounds marvellous.

[00:06:01] Yeah.

[00:06:03] And we heard from Nick who chose Shackma for us to do.

[00:06:08] Oh, okay, yes, interested to hear what he thinks.

[00:06:12] So we were a little worried.

[00:06:14] Yeah, we were worried that we might upset him by throwing it back.

[00:06:17] He said, I only actually first watched it a few years ago.

[00:06:20] My brother and I have this tradition of putting on a late night trashy horror film on Christmas Eve after a few drinks.

[00:06:27] And he suggested Shackma after seeing the trailer online.

[00:06:31] I remember the beginning, a bit of the middle and the ending.

[00:06:35] Perhaps the only bits of the movie you need to see?

[00:06:38] Question mark.

[00:06:40] And most likely nodded off during watching, you can't blame me for that.

[00:06:46] Wow.

[00:06:48] So not a big fan then.

[00:06:51] No, he just thought we'd have fun with it.

[00:06:54] And yeah, we certainly did.

[00:06:56] Yeah.

[00:06:57] Thanks, Nick.

[00:06:58] Yes, thanks, Nick.

[00:07:00] And finally, we heard from Serge of Cold Crash Pictures.

[00:07:03] Hello, Serge.

[00:07:04] Hello, Serge.

[00:07:06] Shackma has a great premise.

[00:07:08] A killer baboon goes on a rampage during an after hours college D&D game,

[00:07:12] but it can't go very far within its limited budget.

[00:07:15] A strong first act gives way to a soggy middle and boring finale.

[00:07:21] I wish I could go back in time and double the budget.

[00:07:24] Movie Oobliet reviewed this one this week,

[00:07:27] and frankly their podcast has much better pacing.

[00:07:31] Thanks, Serge.

[00:07:35] Yes.

[00:07:36] So yes, thank you everyone for getting in touch.

[00:07:39] We do love hearing from you.

[00:07:41] Yeah, we do.

[00:07:42] Yeah.

[00:07:43] So Dan, what on earth could be popping out of the Oobliet forest this time?

[00:07:49] Yes, one moment please.

[00:07:51] Oh, I'm in the Dark Ages.

[00:07:55] Oh no.

[00:07:56] There's some sort of tournament going on.

[00:07:59] Very loud.

[00:08:00] Yeah, night's flying everywhere.

[00:08:02] Watch out.

[00:08:03] A lot of blood.

[00:08:05] Okay, here's the movie.

[00:08:07] Strap to a tournette.

[00:08:09] Yeah, I'll come back.

[00:08:12] I'm back.

[00:08:14] Oh, thank goodness.

[00:08:15] So what do you have for us?

[00:08:17] Yes, so today we are going to be discussing from 1977

[00:08:22] the fantasy adventure comedy Jabba Wacky.

[00:08:26] It's directed by Terry Gilliam starring Michael Palin,

[00:08:32] Harry H Corbett, John Lim.

[00:08:35] I can't even pronounce this.

[00:08:37] I don't know these actors because I'm not British.

[00:08:45] It's a good try.

[00:08:46] Warren Mitchell, Max Wall, Deborah Fowlander, Annette Badland

[00:08:52] and also Camille from Terry Gilliam himself.

[00:08:56] Marvelous.

[00:08:57] So what happens in this movie?

[00:09:00] Yes, Twas, Brillig and the Sly of the Toves did Gire and Gimbal

[00:09:06] in the Wabe, or Mimsy were the Borogovs and the Moehm

[00:09:11] Raths outgrabe.

[00:09:13] Beware the Jabba Wack, my son.

[00:09:17] And so the scene is set.

[00:09:19] The Jabba Wack monster terrorizes the land

[00:09:22] in the time of knights and jousting.

[00:09:25] But who will face the Brutish beast?

[00:09:28] Dennis, a failed barrel maker disowned by his father,

[00:09:33] travels to the castle to find the job with nothing but a potato.

[00:09:38] The king, Bruno the questionable, declares a tournament

[00:09:42] to find a champion to slay the Jabba Wack.

[00:09:46] Our Dennis, through a series of ludicrously unfortunate

[00:09:50] or fortunate events, ends up face to face with the creature.

[00:09:56] This movie has everything.

[00:09:58] Infidelity, gruesome violence, urinating, roasted rats on sticks.

[00:10:04] But will Dennis be able to slay the Jabba Wack?

[00:10:09] Let's find out shall we Conrad after the break.

[00:10:13] Yes, and we'll be joined by a very fun guest.

[00:10:17] Yes, yes, someone first in UK cinema, comedic actors.

[00:10:23] The Jabba Wack lore.

[00:10:24] People I don't know about because I'm not British.

[00:10:41] Our special guest today stepped away from his career

[00:10:44] in post-production to conduct the most exhaustive

[00:10:47] and no doubt exhausting deep dive into a worldwide cesspit

[00:10:52] of woeful filmmaking to bring us The Bad Movie Bible,

[00:10:56] a hilarious, insightful and definitive compendium

[00:11:00] of the 101 or possibly 102 best worst films

[00:11:05] as well as a glorious YouTube channel

[00:11:08] of the same name featuring wildly entertaining rundowns

[00:11:11] of knockoffs and cockups.

[00:11:13] It is, of course, author and film critic Rob Hill.

[00:11:16] Hello, sir.

[00:11:17] Hello, and thank you very much for having me.

[00:11:19] Welcome.

[00:11:20] Yes, welcome, welcome.

[00:11:21] It's really exciting to talk to you.

[00:11:23] We were first introduced to your YouTube channel

[00:11:26] by one of our patrons, Boss Salvage,

[00:11:29] and just binged the whole thing.

[00:11:31] And then I was lucky enough to get your excellent book

[00:11:34] for Christmas from a friend

[00:11:36] and devoured that between Christmas and New Year.

[00:11:40] And what I particularly love about it

[00:11:42] is one of the most serious attempts to define

[00:11:45] that curious thing of what makes a good-bad movie

[00:11:49] because it's quite a tenuous thing, isn't it?

[00:11:52] It is, yeah.

[00:11:53] It's a broad subject.

[00:11:56] And I think the factors that make a good-bad movie

[00:12:00] as opposed to a bad-bad movie

[00:12:02] are hugely diverse at the end of the day.

[00:12:05] There are movies we love to hate or love to hate

[00:12:09] simply because they're cheesy

[00:12:11] or they're over-the-top or they're silly

[00:12:13] and there are movies we love

[00:12:14] because they objectively fail in such a spectacular way.

[00:12:17] And that's not necessarily quite the same thing,

[00:12:20] but it sort of provokes the same response in us.

[00:12:23] Dan, I think that will probably resonate with you

[00:12:26] because you've often said on this pod

[00:12:28] that you love watching crap.

[00:12:29] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:12:30] I get a lot of enjoyment from terrible movies

[00:12:34] and even if they are bad

[00:12:36] and I realize they are bad,

[00:12:39] it's still fun for some reason.

[00:12:42] I still find things that could be better

[00:12:45] or like sort of pinpoint ways that,

[00:12:48] oh, they should have done this,

[00:12:49] they should have done that.

[00:12:50] It's fascinating.

[00:12:51] Like one tiny thing can make a OK movie really terrible

[00:12:56] and it's just like a flip of a coin, really.

[00:12:59] Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

[00:13:01] It's often the result of sort of misplaced ambition as well

[00:13:05] which can be the most entertaining kind of bad movie I find.

[00:13:09] Yes, as you say in your book, it has to be sincere.

[00:13:13] Somebody must be trying.

[00:13:15] Exactly, Sharknado is fine in its own right

[00:13:18] and movies like that,

[00:13:19] but yeah, they're not good bad, they're different.

[00:13:22] And then there's Neil Breen

[00:13:24] and all of those other wonderful filmmakers,

[00:13:27] some of whom you even managed.

[00:13:29] I mean, you got Tommy Wiseau for an interview for your book

[00:13:32] which I was very impressed with.

[00:13:34] Yeah, that was a fun experience.

[00:13:36] Yeah, anything about that you can share

[00:13:39] or are you under an NDA?

[00:13:40] No, no, he's exactly what he seems to be.

[00:13:44] He's just as deranged as you'd expect

[00:13:47] but basically he spent half the interview

[00:13:49] talking about his underwear,

[00:13:50] which he was trying to mark it to a broad audience.

[00:13:55] I don't know quite how that went.

[00:13:57] Wow, okay.

[00:13:59] But no Neil Breen, sadly?

[00:14:01] Sadly not, no, I did contact Neil

[00:14:04] and that ended up being a hilarious...

[00:14:06] To be honest, it was kind of better

[00:14:08] that he didn't speak to me

[00:14:10] because his response was better than it could ever have been

[00:14:12] in an interview.

[00:14:13] Wow.

[00:14:14] It's just an angry denial

[00:14:16] that he has anything to do with this bad movie community

[00:14:18] and actually his films are incredibly well received

[00:14:21] and well respected and well reviewed

[00:14:23] for weeks he was sending me little reviews

[00:14:27] that someone somewhere had written

[00:14:29] that was clearly ironic

[00:14:31] but that he'd taken to heart as justification

[00:14:33] for his brilliance.

[00:14:34] Oh, wow.

[00:14:35] What an experience to have been dealing with.

[00:14:37] Oh, bless, it must be amazing

[00:14:39] to live inside that kind of bubble.

[00:14:41] I'm always full of self loathing and doubt

[00:14:43] but Neil Breen is not so encumbered

[00:14:45] which is great.

[00:14:46] No, no.

[00:14:48] Well the movie that you've chosen for us today

[00:14:51] is not the product of a deranged mind in that sense

[00:14:55] although certainly a very original one.

[00:14:58] It's Jabbawocky.

[00:15:00] It's the first film directed by Terry Gilliam

[00:15:03] without Terry Jones.

[00:15:05] Can you kick us off by talking about

[00:15:07] your history with this film?

[00:15:09] Yes, yeah.

[00:15:10] I mean, I grew up with it.

[00:15:12] It's probably one of the first

[00:15:15] three or four videos I ever had back

[00:15:18] when I must have been eight or nine years old

[00:15:20] or something and I think I'd been introduced

[00:15:22] to Monty Python through my dad

[00:15:25] or my cousin or something

[00:15:27] and then Jabbawocky,

[00:15:29] I think it must have been on television

[00:15:31] because I don't think it was a,

[00:15:33] like a retail video.

[00:15:34] I think it was recorded off the TV

[00:15:36] and I got hold of it by swapping it

[00:15:38] with a friend of my parents' sons

[00:15:41] for the Yellow Submarine.

[00:15:43] Oh.

[00:15:44] I thought I'd much rather have Jabbawocky.

[00:15:46] It was a favourite when I was young.

[00:15:48] We studied the poem in school when I was 10.

[00:15:50] I don't know quite why we were studying

[00:15:52] Jabbawocky at the age of 10

[00:15:54] and I took the opportunity to say,

[00:15:56] ah, did you know there's a film teacher?

[00:15:58] And she didn't so she recommended I bring it in.

[00:16:00] Oh wow.

[00:16:01] And we got as far as the point where

[00:16:03] Warren Mitchell's shitting out of the window

[00:16:05] before she turned it off.

[00:16:07] Oh, marvellous.

[00:16:09] Sadly the rest of the class never got to see it.

[00:16:12] But it never left me.

[00:16:14] I continued to learn.

[00:16:15] Obviously saw more and more of Terry Gilliam's films

[00:16:17] and he became one of my favourite filmmakers

[00:16:20] for my favourite living filmmaker

[00:16:22] and I still think it's one of his best films

[00:16:25] and I noticed going back to it

[00:16:27] for this podcast, having a look on Rotten Tomatoes

[00:16:29] and so on and it just isn't that well received.

[00:16:32] It's got, I don't think it's even got a fresh rating

[00:16:34] on Rotten Tomatoes if that means much.

[00:16:36] No.

[00:16:37] But I think it's a masterpiece.

[00:16:39] Interesting because it's,

[00:16:41] Dan you were saying it before we started recording it.

[00:16:43] Clearly it's a transitional work.

[00:16:45] Now this is something you've been wanting to see for a while.

[00:16:48] Yeah, I mean Terry Gilliam is actually,

[00:16:51] he is one of my favourite directors of all time.

[00:16:53] Like I grew up watching the adventures of Baron Wynch-Ausen.

[00:16:57] That was my favourite film growing up as a kid

[00:17:00] and I still love it

[00:17:02] and I almost don't want to cover it

[00:17:05] for the podcast because it was, you know,

[00:17:07] it was a big flop because I just have,

[00:17:09] I cherish it so much.

[00:17:10] I don't want to say anything bad about it.

[00:17:13] But yeah, I love Terry Gilliam.

[00:17:15] Like the Fisher King, 12 Monkeys, Fear and Loathing,

[00:17:18] like he's just got so many great movies

[00:17:21] and this movie does feel like a Monty Python movie to me.

[00:17:25] Yeah, yeah, kind of.

[00:17:27] But I think part of the reason for that I think

[00:17:29] is it kind of highlights just how much

[00:17:33] the Holy Grail, for example, owes Gilliam

[00:17:36] because a lot of it, if you look back

[00:17:38] at the Monty Python's TV stuff,

[00:17:40] a lot of the connections that I've always made

[00:17:42] between Holy Grail and Jabba Wacky

[00:17:44] aren't actually Python things.

[00:17:46] They're Terry Gilliam things.

[00:17:48] And I think the Holy Grail and Life of Brian as well,

[00:17:51] even though I don't think he did so much work on that.

[00:17:54] There's something about the rhythm of them.

[00:17:57] There's something about the editing.

[00:17:59] There's something about the sound design

[00:18:01] and the texture of it all that is pure Terry Gilliam,

[00:18:03] not Monty Python.

[00:18:05] They have these crowds of people

[00:18:07] and the sound is so layered that you kind of focus in

[00:18:10] and out of different things happening

[00:18:12] and there's all this sort of background noise,

[00:18:16] but background textures, people, you know,

[00:18:18] flies buzzing and people wailing and so on.

[00:18:21] That's not Monty Python, it's Terry Gilliam,

[00:18:23] but I do agree with you that it's a transitional film

[00:18:26] for him though still.

[00:18:28] Yeah, because I read somewhere that he said that he wanted,

[00:18:31] this was almost in response to Holy Grail

[00:18:34] and he wanted to get away from the whole sketchy kind of

[00:18:37] structure of that movie,

[00:18:39] but it still feels very sketchy to me.

[00:18:42] Like it feels like after a sketch, after a sketch,

[00:18:45] with not much narrative tissue.

[00:18:49] It does, yeah.

[00:18:50] So I re-watched it for the first time

[00:18:52] in probably a couple of years recently

[00:18:54] and that's one of the notes I made

[00:18:56] was that it still feels kind of like sketches

[00:18:59] lumped together, but there is still a through narrative

[00:19:03] and things are established early and paid off late

[00:19:06] and it's not as sketchy as the early Python films,

[00:19:09] but it is perhaps less sketchy than Gilliam would become.

[00:19:13] But I listened to the commentary, which again,

[00:19:15] I hadn't listened to since I bought the DVD 20 some years ago.

[00:19:18] Wow.

[00:19:19] And it's funny, Gilliam was saying,

[00:19:20] yeah, I'm so glad we got away from the sketch thing

[00:19:23] and I'm so glad that it doesn't feel sketchy

[00:19:25] and it kind of still does really.

[00:19:28] Yeah, it does.

[00:19:29] The criterion edition which has,

[00:19:31] I don't know if it's the same commentary,

[00:19:33] it has Michael Palin on there as well.

[00:19:35] Michael's talking about, you know,

[00:19:37] it's still a bit too Python-y.

[00:19:39] There are sort of Python gags in here

[00:19:41] and I'd much rather we played it straight

[00:19:44] because visually I think it does.

[00:19:46] I mean, in terms of the production value

[00:19:48] and the cinematography of it

[00:19:50] and the grittiness of it certainly,

[00:19:53] it feels much more of a piece

[00:19:55] and it feels much more Terry Gilliam

[00:19:57] than perhaps the co-directed Holy Grail

[00:20:00] was.

[00:20:01] It feels like it's actually trying to create

[00:20:03] a cohesive world that our main character, Dennis,

[00:20:07] is just bumbling through sort of from one sketch

[00:20:10] to another.

[00:20:11] Yeah, I mean the seating, the castles,

[00:20:14] the costumes, like it's pretty, you know,

[00:20:17] it's impressive.

[00:20:18] It's stunning to look at, I think,

[00:20:20] especially when you consider they had no budget for it.

[00:20:23] The environment that Gilliam creates in that film

[00:20:27] is second to none.

[00:20:29] I mean, you don't get a richer and more textured

[00:20:32] and more sort of viscerally real environment

[00:20:36] in any other kind of movie, I don't think.

[00:20:39] It's a Gilliam thing, isn't it?

[00:20:41] I mean all these movies have it to one extent or another.

[00:20:43] The main note I came away with after

[00:20:45] again going back to what I've come up with

[00:20:47] is it's just so dirty.

[00:20:48] Everything is so dirty

[00:20:51] and so broken and so old

[00:20:55] and that's the costumes, the sets,

[00:20:59] absolutely everything.

[00:21:01] It's just fabulous in that respect.

[00:21:03] Yeah, it's so much so that I think this is the reason

[00:21:06] for the lack of a fresh rating

[00:21:08] because I'm not sure that critics have revisited it

[00:21:11] significantly since it came out

[00:21:13] but certainly when it came out

[00:21:14] it was marketed in the US as a Monty Python film

[00:21:18] even though they did not want it to be.

[00:21:21] So people went in expecting Holy Grail.

[00:21:24] What they got was not Monty Python all the way through.

[00:21:27] It certainly isn't consistently funny in the same way

[00:21:30] and also, yeah, it's dirty, it's grimy

[00:21:34] and there were lots of reviews at the time saying

[00:21:37] how dare you force us to sit through a hundred minutes

[00:21:40] of such ugly people covered in film?

[00:21:43] All these bad teeth.

[00:21:45] Yeah, well, yeah, we can't help that with British birth.

[00:21:49] But, you know, 1977 it was not the era

[00:21:53] of gritty film making necessarily in the mainstream at least.

[00:21:58] No, that's right, yeah, and as you say

[00:22:01] it was marketed as a Monty Python film

[00:22:04] and I think we know there's no better way to curse a movie's

[00:22:07] box office than to market it as something that it isn't

[00:22:10] and if you read the critics at the time

[00:22:13] especially, I think Gillian mentions this actually

[00:22:15] particularly in the countries where Python were popular already

[00:22:18] and the reviews are this isn't as funny as Python

[00:22:21] and it's not trying to be easy.

[00:22:23] It's not meant to be gag a moment, gag a second.

[00:22:26] It's meant to be a bit more than that.

[00:22:28] Yeah, yet it kind of does feel a little bit gag a second.

[00:22:33] Like every scene is just utter chaos.

[00:22:37] Like it's completely absurdity.

[00:22:41] Either just strange things happens

[00:22:43] or I don't know what's actually happening.

[00:22:47] We're talking over each other.

[00:22:49] It's chaotic.

[00:22:51] It is chaotic. That's another word I wrote down actually.

[00:22:54] I think that's Gillian trying to muster a sense of the horror

[00:22:59] of the fact that nothing is controllable.

[00:23:03] Everything seems slightly out of control in this world.

[00:23:06] Everyone is just on the brink of starvation

[00:23:09] or murder or some other form of death

[00:23:13] and they all exist particularly Dennis

[00:23:16] in the swirling mayhem of misery and horror and bleakness.

[00:23:20] Being British I think that's just great.

[00:23:22] Sure.

[00:23:30] What's enjoyable is seeing again a typical Monty Python approach

[00:23:34] is taking a modern sensibility

[00:23:36] and modern sociological concerns

[00:23:38] and then just dumping them into the dark ages.

[00:23:41] Exactly.

[00:23:42] So you've got Dennis who's not interested

[00:23:44] in becoming a craftsman as a cooper

[00:23:47] like his father.

[00:23:48] He's just interested in efficiency

[00:23:50] and making it an efficient business that he can profit from

[00:23:54] and his Disney I Want song would just be about travelling two miles

[00:23:59] and marrying the girl that's in his own village.

[00:24:02] He's the most mundane little man that you could ever imagine

[00:24:07] and he's our central hero.

[00:24:10] Brilliantly played by Michael Palin as we said.

[00:24:13] It's just a delight watching him isn't it?

[00:24:15] I've got a theory with Monty Python

[00:24:17] that there's two stages of love for Monty Python.

[00:24:20] It's the first one where you think John Cleese is the best one.

[00:24:23] Then you mature a bit and you realise actually Michael Palin is everything.

[00:24:26] It's all about Michael Palin.

[00:24:28] He certainly is acting.

[00:24:30] It's just wonderful.

[00:24:32] Yeah so Dennis is kind of our accidental hero.

[00:24:36] Like he's not even trying to be heroic

[00:24:39] or courageous or anything.

[00:24:42] He's got very low ambitions.

[00:24:45] He doesn't want to get with the princess.

[00:24:47] He doesn't want to slay the big monster.

[00:24:49] But he does somehow.

[00:24:53] All he wants is Griseldo.

[00:24:56] His ambitions are established brilliantly in the opening scenes

[00:25:00] I think with Warren Mitchell

[00:25:02] who's a British character actor

[00:25:04] who'd be very familiar to British listeners

[00:25:06] who is the local successful businessman

[00:25:10] in a very suburban way.

[00:25:13] There's a brilliant exchange that sums up everything

[00:25:16] at the beginning where Warren Mitchell is trying to show off.

[00:25:19] He's called Mr. Fishfinger.

[00:25:21] He's trying to show off because he's been over to Motley

[00:25:24] which must be all of two miles away.

[00:25:26] Dennis' reaction to this jet setting

[00:25:33] sort of international figure.

[00:25:35] It's two miles away.

[00:25:37] That's the world that Dennis lives in

[00:25:39] and that establishes him perfectly.

[00:25:41] His ambitions are unbelievably small.

[00:25:44] They are.

[00:25:45] And the film itself is a really fascinating example

[00:25:48] of a fairy tale being deconstructed

[00:25:51] because you just have the princess

[00:25:53] who's completely bought into this narrative.

[00:25:57] She is convinced she's going to be rescued

[00:26:00] from a tower at some point

[00:26:02] and marry a prince and live happily ever after

[00:26:05] and she's wonderfully naive in her own way.

[00:26:08] And Dennis is just bumbling through life

[00:26:10] from one thing to another with no ambition

[00:26:12] who ends up accidentally slaying the Jabbawocky

[00:26:15] or the Jabbawock, I think actually is what it should be called

[00:26:18] and being forced to marry the princess

[00:26:20] and given half the kingdom and he's gutted.

[00:26:23] Absolutely gutted.

[00:26:25] All he wants is his beloved Grazelda.

[00:26:28] He's absolutely fantastically played.

[00:26:31] I think there's a point in Terry Gilliam's commentary

[00:26:34] when he's talking about her, the end

[00:26:36] when she comes back into it at the end

[00:26:38] and there's a shot which she's not centre of.

[00:26:42] It's her dad, Mr. Fishfinger, who's doing the talking.

[00:26:45] She's just stood next to him

[00:26:47] trying to make herself appealing to a knight.

[00:26:49] And what she's doing is grade A,

[00:26:53] it's extraordinary acting.

[00:26:55] Her face isn't still for a moment.

[00:26:57] Every feature is darting about her face

[00:27:00] desperately trying to figure out the best way to impress

[00:27:02] and she's sort of wiping mud off and doing her hair.

[00:27:05] It's such a great performance.

[00:27:07] I've got in my notes, I have to remember her name.

[00:27:10] Annette Badland.

[00:27:12] That's it, that's it.

[00:27:14] She's just fantastic. It's her first film apparently.

[00:27:16] Which is not true of many of the rest of the cast

[00:27:18] because you've pretty much got,

[00:27:20] it may be completely baffling for an international audience

[00:27:23] but you've pretty much got a who's who

[00:27:25] of 70s British comedy going on here

[00:27:28] because not least of course you've got a couple of the

[00:27:31] best actors, Pailin and Jones.

[00:27:33] You've also got John Le Mesuré from Dad's Army.

[00:27:36] You've got Warren Mitchell from Till Death Do Us Part

[00:27:39] and In Sickness and in Health.

[00:27:41] Harry H. Corbett from Steptoe and Son.

[00:27:44] You've got Bernard Breslau from the Carry On movies

[00:27:47] who we've bumped into in this podcast

[00:27:49] as The Cyclops in Croll.

[00:27:51] And even from the history of Music Hall

[00:27:54] you've got Max Wall as King Bruno

[00:27:57] the questionable for a British audience.

[00:28:00] This is just like, who isn't in this movie?

[00:28:02] This is really amazing.

[00:28:04] We're probably also getting it,

[00:28:06] rightly say that a lot of these names won't be familiar

[00:28:08] to an international audience

[00:28:10] but it's getting to the point where they wouldn't

[00:28:12] be familiar to a British audience

[00:28:14] I think as well, certainly below a certain age

[00:28:16] because they're almost all forgotten

[00:28:19] or overly forgotten if that makes sense.

[00:28:22] I mean Max Wall was forgotten even at the time.

[00:28:25] He'd been, you know,

[00:28:27] his career was all bit over I believe

[00:28:29] and he'd been a huge Music Hall star

[00:28:31] between the wars.

[00:28:33] And as you say, playing Bruno

[00:28:35] the questionable here who is

[00:28:37] I think probably my favourite character.

[00:28:39] Certainly my favourite dynamic is the one between

[00:28:41] he and John Le Mesere

[00:28:43] who plays his kind of chamberlain

[00:28:45] the old married couple dynamic

[00:28:47] that they have going is just fabulous

[00:28:49] because it's kind of almost a riff

[00:28:51] on Dad's Army as well

[00:28:53] because Le Mesere is naturally playing

[00:28:55] a very similar character to his Sergeant Wilson

[00:28:57] in Dad's Army

[00:28:59] and he's the sort of second in command

[00:29:01] but doesn't seem to have an awful lot of respect

[00:29:03] for the superior he's meant

[00:29:05] to be in awe of

[00:29:07] and it just goes to show how

[00:29:09] brilliantly character actors

[00:29:11] could back in the day and maybe still now

[00:29:13] do a certain thing

[00:29:15] just do one thing absolutely brilliantly.

[00:29:17] Yeah, I love his character name as well

[00:29:19] Passel Hugh.

[00:29:21] There's also which I'd completely forgotten

[00:29:23] actually Dave Prouse, Darth Vader

[00:29:25] plays both of the knights

[00:29:27] the black knight

[00:29:29] is the obvious

[00:29:31] the red herring which I hadn't realised

[00:29:33] was what the other knights called

[00:29:35] the knight who is set up to be the hero

[00:29:37] I always just thought

[00:29:39] he's got a fish on his helmet

[00:29:41] and that's kind of funny

[00:29:43] it never occurred to me that it's a red herring

[00:29:45] and he's set up to be the hero but there isn't

[00:29:47] so he's literally

[00:29:49] called the red herring that character.

[00:29:51] That's hilarious. Yeah, Palin doesn't know that

[00:29:53] until Gilliam mentions it on the commentary

[00:29:55] which is like 20 years later.

[00:29:57] Wow.

[00:29:59] Yeah.

[00:30:01] It's funny you mentioned that David Prouse

[00:30:03] is in this Darth Vader the same year

[00:30:05] I'm not sure if they shot this before

[00:30:07] they shot Star Wars or if it was concurrent

[00:30:09] but he was certainly in both

[00:30:11] and we also have Kenneth Colley

[00:30:13] who plays one of the religious

[00:30:15] fanatics

[00:30:17] and he was Admiral Piot in Empire Strikes Back

[00:30:19] and Return of the Jedi

[00:30:21] one of the few senior members

[00:30:23] of the Empire that didn't get

[00:30:25] throttled today

[00:30:27] and he's hilarious as the religious fanatic.

[00:30:29] He's so funny isn't he?

[00:30:31] He's absolutely determined

[00:30:33] to be flagulated.

[00:30:37] He insists on setting himself on fire

[00:30:39] and catapulting himself out of the castle.

[00:30:41] Yes.

[00:30:43] And so was the stuntman

[00:30:45] apparently. Yes.

[00:30:47] Gilliam mentions this on the commentary

[00:30:49] the stuntman was determined to be fired

[00:30:51] over the walls of the castle

[00:30:53] on fire. Really?

[00:30:55] And they said no we really must test this

[00:30:57] with a dummy so they tried and of course

[00:30:59] it splattered straight into the wall.

[00:31:01] Oh my god.

[00:31:03] So they said no you're not doing this

[00:31:05] we're just going to do a dummy

[00:31:07] it's going to look stupid it's fine.

[00:31:09] Yeah right.

[00:31:15] I kind of wanted to

[00:31:17] cover a few of the ridiculous scenes.

[00:31:19] Okay. There's just so many

[00:31:21] things that just kind of

[00:31:23] happen to Dennis.

[00:31:25] He gets into the castle

[00:31:27] by just sneaking in the

[00:31:29] side door because one of the guys is taking

[00:31:31] a shit is that right?

[00:31:33] Yes.

[00:31:35] And then he during

[00:31:37] the tournament he follows

[00:31:39] a turnip that falls

[00:31:41] on the ground and it just keeps

[00:31:43] rolling into an armory guy

[00:31:45] and then he gets

[00:31:47] led off to the armory to help

[00:31:49] with them but then he causes

[00:31:51] just havoc.

[00:31:53] Everything just like collapses

[00:31:55] just so many of these kind of

[00:31:57] like what is going on

[00:31:59] scenes that kind of just lead him

[00:32:01] in places that he just seems

[00:32:03] to be okay in like the

[00:32:05] Trubuchet catapult scene as well

[00:32:07] just like what is this?

[00:32:09] There's always kind of an abstract element

[00:32:11] to it isn't there? Yeah.

[00:32:13] We just follow him for a spell anyway.

[00:32:15] We just follow Dennis through

[00:32:17] these increasingly awful experiences

[00:32:19] that he's being subject to

[00:32:21] that he doesn't really deserve and that he can't do

[00:32:23] anything about because he's so ineffectual.

[00:32:25] That's one of my favorite scenes actually

[00:32:27] in the workshop where they've

[00:32:29] hoisted the nights up

[00:32:31] like cars and everything just

[00:32:33] turns completely to shit.

[00:32:35] Purely and simply because Dennis comes in

[00:32:37] with a bright idea and it's just

[00:32:39] marvelous and again it perfectly

[00:32:41] the kind of the modern issues transposed

[00:32:43] to back to medieval times

[00:32:45] scenario that Gilliam's going with.

[00:32:47] You know Dennis just can't

[00:32:49] help but try to improve

[00:32:51] the environment and try to update

[00:32:53] the working practices and so on and it

[00:32:55] leads to complete mayhem.

[00:32:57] He's trying to do a time in motion

[00:32:59] study isn't he in the armory

[00:33:01] and causes complete

[00:33:03] pandemonium. Yeah, that's another

[00:33:05] one where we've got another great British actor

[00:33:07] turning up. Brian Glover as

[00:33:09] the Armorer who

[00:33:11] I think most people will recognize

[00:33:13] from the pub in an American werewolf

[00:33:15] in London and maybe

[00:33:17] Alien 3 as well. Yeah

[00:33:19] and Emporidge if you're British.

[00:33:21] I would say as a

[00:33:23] non-Brit and also

[00:33:25] I didn't really grow up with

[00:33:27] Monty Python. I did watch Monty

[00:33:29] Python later on and sort of

[00:33:31] in my 20s. I've watched you know

[00:33:33] Holy Grail meaning of life and life of Brian

[00:33:35] in a few of the series

[00:33:37] not a huge amount.

[00:33:39] So for me this movie

[00:33:41] does seem quite foreign.

[00:33:43] I feel like there are a lot of jokes

[00:33:45] I just didn't get and I

[00:33:47] know I'm missing something

[00:33:49] and even actor wise

[00:33:51] I mean apart from Michael

[00:33:53] Palin and Terry

[00:33:55] Gilliam's little cameo

[00:33:57] I don't really know anyone.

[00:34:01] Yeah, looking at it

[00:34:03] they are all incredibly

[00:34:05] domestic. I mean John

[00:34:07] Byrd who plays the herald

[00:34:09] who's constantly getting trumpeted over

[00:34:11] he's another

[00:34:13] legendary British

[00:34:15] actor but in

[00:34:17] a very narrow sphere

[00:34:19] even in this country.

[00:34:21] Right, okay yeah yeah

[00:34:23] because I feel like I'm that

[00:34:25] critic from the 70s

[00:34:27] that thought they were going to see a Monty Python

[00:34:29] I was expecting John Cleese

[00:34:31] to pop up or you know all of them

[00:34:33] but just wasn't

[00:34:35] quite that and all the

[00:34:37] actors that were in this movie

[00:34:39] I didn't know who they were.

[00:34:41] Gilliam kind of made a rod for his own back with this

[00:34:43] because he desperately wanted to break away

[00:34:45] from Python and

[00:34:47] that's why he didn't put all the

[00:34:49] pythons in it but at the same time

[00:34:51] he stayed with material that was

[00:34:53] incredibly Python-esque

[00:34:55] in an era that they'd already done

[00:34:57] we mentioned earlier about

[00:34:59] how there's perhaps

[00:35:01] times it gets a bit too Python

[00:35:03] considering it has a much straighter

[00:35:05] tone generally and the

[00:35:07] hide-and-seek competition

[00:35:09] to choose the winner of

[00:35:11] rather than jousting

[00:35:13] the king has the night to hide and seek

[00:35:15] and that is a scene

[00:35:17] straight out of The Holy Grail

[00:35:19] it looks like it, it sounds

[00:35:21] like it, it works like it and

[00:35:23] if you don't want to be associated with Python

[00:35:25] don't do stuff like that maybe.

[00:35:27] Yeah, I did find like

[00:35:29] a sort of potty humour

[00:35:31] where you know

[00:35:33] the character with the

[00:35:35] zasticking out the window taking a shit

[00:35:37] while having a conversation with Dennis

[00:35:39] or the scene where Dennis wakes up

[00:35:41] and the guards are urinating

[00:35:43] off the wall on his face

[00:35:45] it's just like this is classic

[00:35:47] Python right? Yeah, he gets

[00:35:49] peed on at least twice in the film.

[00:35:51] He does, yeah

[00:35:53] Griselda's younger brother I think

[00:35:55] it is Roger.

[00:35:57] We get full

[00:35:59] frontal child penis

[00:36:01] within

[00:36:03] the first few minutes of this

[00:36:05] movie.

[00:36:07] It's no wonder that the Americans were just

[00:36:09] completely baffled and outraged.

[00:36:11] Well yeah, because we also get

[00:36:13] in the first moments unbelievable

[00:36:15] levels of gore frankly.

[00:36:17] The opening I think it's the first

[00:36:19] scene which is a

[00:36:21] Terry Jones' cameo

[00:36:23] in which he's killed by the Jabberwock

[00:36:25] with that, the shot of him

[00:36:27] still alive looking down at his body

[00:36:29] it's much like the ending of

[00:36:31] Many of Life when his Mr.

[00:36:33] Creosote character gets blown apart

[00:36:35] he's actually pulling the same kind of expression as he looks

[00:36:37] down at his body with guts and blood

[00:36:39] hanging off it. I mean that's

[00:36:41] proper horror movie stuff.

[00:36:43] It did remind me of

[00:36:45] like Sam Raimi almost when he's

[00:36:47] kind of getting lifted up into the air

[00:36:49] it's just like wow this is like visceral almost.

[00:36:51] I was thinking that

[00:36:53] I don't remember this being so Sam, but of course

[00:36:55] pre Sam Raimi and

[00:36:57] interestingly Gilliam

[00:36:59] credits Jaws with that.

[00:37:01] I don't quite see

[00:37:03] the editing you see you know cutting away to

[00:37:05] the view of the first person

[00:37:07] view of the Jabberwock as well you get that

[00:37:09] from Jaws maybe but it's incredibly

[00:37:11] Sam Raimi the kind of visceral

[00:37:13] kinetic mayhem

[00:37:15] of the camera work.

[00:37:17] Yeah this has much more and I think

[00:37:19] Gilliam mentions this in the commentary

[00:37:21] because it has much more of a cartoonist's

[00:37:23] sensibility too

[00:37:25] because a lot of the stunts

[00:37:27] where people and knights

[00:37:29] are being thrown sideways

[00:37:31] across rooms or

[00:37:33] splatting on walls and then slowly sliding down

[00:37:35] it's very much like a live action

[00:37:37] cartoon which is not something

[00:37:39] that Python did particularly.

[00:37:41] That's very true yeah there's a lot of

[00:37:43] every time a knight is

[00:37:45] struck violently

[00:37:47] he doesn't just fall off his horse

[00:37:49] and fall down we cut to

[00:37:51] what is obviously a suit of armour that's been dropped

[00:37:53] from a tall building

[00:37:55] no matter what the action is

[00:37:57] it results in the knight being hurled

[00:37:59] hundreds of feet.

[00:38:01] Yes horizontally as well

[00:38:03] I'd love the visual

[00:38:05] style of it which is not

[00:38:07] something that Gilliam did again

[00:38:09] particularly I don't think

[00:38:11] No it's I mean he's obviously

[00:38:13] always been a very visual director but it's

[00:38:15] so obviously inspired by

[00:38:17] medieval art

[00:38:19] but not just medieval art

[00:38:21] but art in general

[00:38:23] there's a lot of

[00:38:25] brogiel in there, there's a lot of caravaggio

[00:38:27] in the way that the

[00:38:29] mise-en-scene works with characters

[00:38:31] or maybe the blocking there's lots of

[00:38:33] sort of staged

[00:38:35] shots of one character

[00:38:37] kind of leaning into another character

[00:38:39] and a character gesticulating

[00:38:41] and the camera doesn't move the characters fill

[00:38:43] the frame and it looks just like a caravaggio

[00:38:45] painting. It's quite beautiful

[00:38:47] Yeah and with the lighting as well

[00:38:49] Yeah what I loved about that

[00:38:51] is how they use darkness for walls

[00:38:53] in some sets because they didn't actually

[00:38:55] have any so it's just

[00:38:57] candles and letting things

[00:38:59] fall away into blackness

[00:39:01] and the cinematographer

[00:39:03] it's Terry Bedford

[00:39:05] who also did Holy Grail

[00:39:07] but I mean this is something else

[00:39:09] I think in terms of

[00:39:11] visually really is beautiful

[00:39:13] it's beautiful shit but it's beautiful

[00:39:17] I think it's something that apparently

[00:39:19] there was a lot of feuding over because

[00:39:21] the cinematographer didn't think they should

[00:39:23] be doing this he seemed to think

[00:39:25] there was lots of money and

[00:39:27] wasn't happy to be having to make these compromises

[00:39:29] but it does work because

[00:39:31] it just adds to the, it's a very dingy film anyway

[00:39:33] it's a very dingy

[00:39:35] obviously it's shot in natural

[00:39:37] light as much as possible and that's natural

[00:39:39] light in whales which isn't

[00:39:41] going to be the most determined

[00:39:43] of natural light

[00:39:45] apparently they regularly had huge arguments

[00:39:47] about what they were doing and whether

[00:39:49] or not it could be done better

[00:39:51] and Gilliam just had to keep saying we haven't got the money

[00:39:53] Right yeah so this was made

[00:39:55] for about half a million

[00:39:57] pounds I should say

[00:39:59] and according to

[00:40:01] one book the film distributors

[00:40:03] receipts were

[00:40:05] sort of about £479,000

[00:40:07] so they almost sort of got

[00:40:09] their money back but

[00:40:11] not really

[00:40:13] so yeah it was a flop

[00:40:15] Yeah someone took a dive on that

[00:40:17] but at the same time though it's been on home video

[00:40:19] for 40 years

[00:40:21] now and I mean I've bought it

[00:40:23] on at least three formats there must be other people

[00:40:25] who have, I get the feeling

[00:40:27] that it's done, you know

[00:40:29] it's been a bit of a cult hit on home video

[00:40:31] maybe but I could be wrong about that

[00:40:33] No I certainly think it found its life

[00:40:35] in that format in the 80s

[00:40:37] for sure

[00:40:39] Now it's time for Random Trivia

[00:40:41] Okay it's trivia time Conrad

[00:40:43] what did you find with a

[00:40:45] bunch of rats on sticks today?

[00:40:47] So Harry H Corbett

[00:40:49] who plays the squire

[00:40:51] who cuckolds

[00:40:53] Bernard Breslau's landlord

[00:40:55] he apparently

[00:40:57] when the hair

[00:40:59] and makeup lady visited him

[00:41:01] to talk about his look

[00:41:03] for the film she was talking

[00:41:05] about either cutting his actual hair

[00:41:07] if he grew it a bit longer

[00:41:09] or maybe making a wig for him

[00:41:11] and whilst she's having the discussion

[00:41:13] with him she suddenly realizes

[00:41:15] that Mr Corbett is wearing a

[00:41:17] wig

[00:41:19] and is not acknowledging

[00:41:21] that fact

[00:41:23] which was awkward

[00:41:25] so he said

[00:41:27] well yeah we could do it with my real hair

[00:41:29] but I think you should make a wig just in case

[00:41:31] so she went to the

[00:41:33] famous wig makers in London

[00:41:35] that does wigs for all the movies and theatre productions

[00:41:37] and said

[00:41:39] I've got a bit of a sticky situation here

[00:41:41] he's sort of treating it as though he doesn't have a wig

[00:41:43] and they said no it's fine

[00:41:45] Corbett does this all the time

[00:41:47] we just make a wig topper

[00:41:49] that can go over

[00:41:51] his wig

[00:41:53] so he is wearing

[00:41:55] two wigs throughout the movie

[00:41:57] which I think is

[00:41:59] just lovely

[00:42:01] as another example of

[00:42:03] Neil Breen-like self-delusion

[00:42:05] geez

[00:42:11] that's amazing

[00:42:13] and that's how trivia

[00:42:21] so the Jebelot creature

[00:42:23] it's not a dragon

[00:42:25] it's a bird

[00:42:27] I watched it with my 10 year old son

[00:42:29] and at the end

[00:42:31] he said why doesn't it just breathe fire

[00:42:33] and I said it can't

[00:42:35] it's not a dragon

[00:42:37] and he said then why is everything on fire then

[00:42:39] so yeah

[00:42:41] there's just cherry gillian

[00:42:43] there's going to be smoke everywhere

[00:42:45] there's going to be patches that are on fire for no particular reason

[00:42:47] and of course you don't see

[00:42:49] the Jabba walk until

[00:42:51] the very end of the movie

[00:42:53] but I do love its reveal

[00:42:55] and it's definitely through the point of view

[00:42:57] of Dennis in one of these helmets

[00:42:59] with just the slit for the eyes

[00:43:01] that's right

[00:43:03] but it's a fantastic bit of costuming

[00:43:05] and creature design as well

[00:43:07] it is isn't it

[00:43:09] and it's based very closely on an original illustration

[00:43:11] from Alice through the looking glass

[00:43:13] I think was the book that it appeared in wasn't it

[00:43:15] and like the main artwork

[00:43:17] as well the main artwork

[00:43:19] the poster artwork is lifted

[00:43:21] straight from the book

[00:43:23] it is yeah, John Tenniel

[00:43:25] and the way that they achieved it

[00:43:27] the stunt guy is standing in it backwards

[00:43:29] so his

[00:43:31] the legs fold in the right way like chicken legs

[00:43:33] because his knees are obviously going the other way

[00:43:35] and he's actually

[00:43:37] his arms are out of the back sort of flapping the wings around

[00:43:39] it just tricks the human eye

[00:43:41] because you're just not expecting to see

[00:43:43] a body in that configuration

[00:43:45] so it just completely fools you

[00:43:47] and they also did the 70s thing that they did in Alien as well

[00:43:49] where they have a duplicate

[00:43:51] they have a duplicate knight's costume

[00:43:53] for a child

[00:43:55] and it's a child that's doing battle

[00:43:57] with this thing

[00:43:59] really I did not know that

[00:44:01] it's obviously shot

[00:44:03] in such a way to create

[00:44:05] a pressure of scale that it probably didn't have

[00:44:07] but I didn't know that

[00:44:09] I wasn't sure

[00:44:11] about that last scene as well

[00:44:13] so there's a kind of a showdown

[00:44:15] between the Black Knight

[00:44:17] and Dennis

[00:44:19] I don't know

[00:44:21] it's not very clearly established

[00:44:23] but the Black Knight I think is dispatched

[00:44:25] by the guild leaders

[00:44:27] because they don't want the Jabbawok killed

[00:44:29] by Red Herring

[00:44:31] who Red Herring and Dennis

[00:44:33] go out together, Dennis has become Red Herring's squire

[00:44:35] they go out together to kill the Jabbawok

[00:44:37] the Black Knight then attacks

[00:44:39] Red Herring because the guild have sent him

[00:44:41] to do that

[00:44:43] so once Red Herring's dead

[00:44:45] I suppose Dennis

[00:44:47] has to go too because he's part of the same team

[00:44:49] that makes sense

[00:44:51] but it isn't very clearly established at all

[00:44:53] it's one of the few

[00:44:55] plot points that doesn't

[00:44:57] really come through

[00:44:59] that the guild have done that

[00:45:01] there's also a whole bunch of these

[00:45:03] menacing guys

[00:45:05] just kind of surrounding Dennis as well

[00:45:09] again, it's just a Terry Gilliam movie

[00:45:11] you're not going to find a quarry

[00:45:13] in a Terry Gilliam movie that isn't full

[00:45:15] of filthy animalistic people

[00:45:17] scurrying about

[00:45:19] in the mud and scraping

[00:45:21] things to eat off the ground

[00:45:23] one thing that is very Terry Gilliam

[00:45:27] certainly at this point in his career

[00:45:29] around the time of

[00:45:31] Brazil particularly

[00:45:33] is there's a bit of socio-economic

[00:45:35] satire going on

[00:45:37] for example

[00:45:39] the monarchy has shown as something that is

[00:45:41] literally crumbling

[00:45:43] and the whole

[00:45:45] of the country is

[00:45:47] quite enjoyable just as a visual gag

[00:45:49] but discussions in the Great Hall

[00:45:51] are interrupted by debris

[00:45:53] falling from the ceiling

[00:45:55] at one point King Bruno offers

[00:45:57] his princess daughter the West Tower

[00:45:59] and it promptly falls apart

[00:46:01] outside the window

[00:46:03] as he gestures towards it

[00:46:05] and when her prince does finally

[00:46:07] come to rescue her while she's

[00:46:09] busy having a discussion

[00:46:11] unfortunately the stone that he's holding on to

[00:46:13] in the windowsill just breaks and falls away

[00:46:15] so he's toast

[00:46:17] I quite enjoyed seeing this sort of

[00:46:19] scabby falling apart

[00:46:21] vision of leadership

[00:46:23] and at the same time

[00:46:25] also this underlying discussion about

[00:46:27] well we've got to keep this whole

[00:46:29] politics of fear monster

[00:46:31] in the woods thing going because it's actually

[00:46:33] pretty good for business

[00:46:35] yeah there's a

[00:46:37] it's interesting dynamic

[00:46:39] you've got the monarchy is literally

[00:46:41] crumbling and it is fabulous

[00:46:43] Bruno sitting there eating meals

[00:46:45] and huge waves of dust

[00:46:47] and masonry will just

[00:46:49] collapse onto the table next to him

[00:46:51] he doesn't even blink, he doesn't acknowledge it

[00:46:53] most of the time

[00:46:55] you'd expect it then to maybe have quite socialist

[00:46:57] politics but actually it's

[00:46:59] kind of quite critical of

[00:47:01] the idea of unions or guilds

[00:47:03] as it would have been then

[00:47:05] and the way that the

[00:47:07] business leaders control the situation

[00:47:09] as you say and exploit it

[00:47:11] is incredibly again

[00:47:13] modern politics and modern concerns

[00:47:15] transposed onto medieval

[00:47:17] times and medieval characters

[00:47:19] but it makes them out to be

[00:47:21] just like today's

[00:47:23] not entirely

[00:47:25] likable business leaders

[00:47:27] they probably may be summed up in the

[00:47:29] scene where they race through

[00:47:31] the town because being

[00:47:33] a wealthy man of the time you would

[00:47:35] apparently be carried by four men

[00:47:37] on a chair basically as

[00:47:39] kings and cartoons are and there's a scene

[00:47:41] where these three

[00:47:43] guild leaders are moving towards

[00:47:45] the centre of the city in these

[00:47:47] contraptions being carried and they're talking

[00:47:49] to each other as they do it and they start

[00:47:51] whipping the carriers

[00:47:53] to get them just a few inches ahead

[00:47:55] of their competitor, guild

[00:47:57] leader or whoever he is and it gets

[00:47:59] to the point where they're just running full

[00:48:01] pelt and people are falling off and it gets

[00:48:03] out of hand but that satire

[00:48:05] taken to the extreme

[00:48:07] it is wonderful and I note that

[00:48:09] Terry Gilliam majored in political

[00:48:11] science I think so

[00:48:13] I'm not surprised to see this sort of seeping

[00:48:15] into his narrative

[00:48:17] I don't know a lot about

[00:48:19] Terry Gilliam as sort of career

[00:48:21] I didn't even know he was American

[00:48:23] until I listened to part of

[00:48:25] the commentary being one of my favourite directors

[00:48:27] I did not know that and so

[00:48:29] he was American and he joined

[00:48:31] the pythons fairly sort of

[00:48:33] he was a light comer to the group I guess

[00:48:35] I think he was with them from the start

[00:48:37] but he's kind of worked separately

[00:48:39] they all kind of worked

[00:48:41] separately strangely they wrote

[00:48:43] in little groups basically amongst themselves

[00:48:45] and then met to compare ideas

[00:48:47] and Gilliam's role within that context

[00:48:49] was to come up with animations

[00:48:51] animated links between the sketches

[00:48:53] that was basically his job

[00:48:55] he was a full blown member of the pythons

[00:48:57] but his role was very different

[00:48:59] to the others. Right, right

[00:49:01] because I didn't even know he was an animator

[00:49:03] because there were sort of sketches that he'd done

[00:49:05] for this film that were

[00:49:07] realised. Yeah I believe

[00:49:09] that he storyboarded everything

[00:49:11] but also some of his

[00:49:13] anime I noticed there's actually some of his animation

[00:49:15] in it at the end there's a cloud

[00:49:17] shot at the end which is

[00:49:19] I'd never really noticed before but it's clearly his style

[00:49:21] Yeah the riding off into the

[00:49:23] sunset with the miserable happy ending

[00:49:25] Yes

[00:49:27] Coming to you live from the movie

[00:49:29] Ubliet Theatre it's the prestigious

[00:49:31] Moobly Awards

[00:49:35] Hello it's that special time of the part

[00:49:39] the Moobly Awards where we nominate

[00:49:41] our favourite raw potato

[00:49:43] tasty parts of the film and a number

[00:49:45] of accidentally monster

[00:49:47] slaying categories. That's

[00:49:49] quote. As it is

[00:49:51] I don't really have a favourite

[00:49:53] quote as such but I love

[00:49:55] everything to do with the potato

[00:49:57] everything surrounding the potato

[00:49:59] the scene where Dennis gets it

[00:50:01] but also the scene

[00:50:03] where he's trying to get into the castle

[00:50:05] to begin with and you're not allowed

[00:50:07] into the castle grounds unless you've got

[00:50:09] property unless you've got something

[00:50:11] and Dennis doesn't have anything but then the guards

[00:50:13] realise he's got a mouldy potato

[00:50:15] and that makes him rich in their eyes

[00:50:17] and that whole exchange

[00:50:19] where the guards are in awe

[00:50:21] at what you can do with a potato

[00:50:23] and you can do that for a week all that stuff

[00:50:25] that's one of my favourite dialogue

[00:50:27] scenes let's say. I love

[00:50:29] all the potato stuff

[00:50:31] That scene was so strange to me

[00:50:33] because it keeps continuing

[00:50:35] Dennis goes away

[00:50:37] but then like oh wait

[00:50:39] show us your legs

[00:50:41] and then he just slowly

[00:50:43] slowly drops his trousers

[00:50:45] That's my favourite quote

[00:50:47] show us your legs

[00:50:49] that's the pinnacle of that scene

[00:50:51] and then the reaction is just something like

[00:50:53] nahhh

[00:50:55] what were you looking for in these legs exactly

[00:50:57] that would have made a difference to your response

[00:50:59] I don't know

[00:51:01] I have no idea

[00:51:03] My favourite comes from

[00:51:05] I mentioned Kenneth Colley

[00:51:07] who of course plays Admiral Peart in the Star Wars movies

[00:51:09] I do love the scene

[00:51:11] where he is screaming about

[00:51:13] the fact that all of the

[00:51:15] punishments that they were going to visit upon

[00:51:17] Dennis for being a heath

[00:51:19] they get a bit jealous because

[00:51:21] they're flagellants and they want to visit

[00:51:23] all of this punishment on themselves

[00:51:25] so he says I want to

[00:51:27] trace across the firmament

[00:51:29] a glowing ball of flame

[00:51:31] a testament to our godliness

[00:51:33] and piety and somebody else

[00:51:35] says what does that mean?

[00:51:37] he says I don't know but I want it

[00:51:39] best hair or costume

[00:51:43] It's a tough call isn't it because

[00:51:45] as you've revealed there's a hell of

[00:51:47] a story behind one of the hairstyles

[00:51:49] in this movie

[00:51:51] so that aside

[00:51:53] it's Dennis isn't it

[00:51:55] his fantastic bowl cut

[00:51:57] I think was it Togelliam's wife

[00:51:59] gave him I want to say

[00:52:01] Yes

[00:52:03] It's just fantastic

[00:52:05] it's exactly what it should be

[00:52:07] It is, it is so

[00:52:09] unglamorous and done to his own hair

[00:52:13] quite brave of him

[00:52:15] for me I absolutely

[00:52:17] adored all of the knights

[00:52:19] we've mentioned the knights of the red herring

[00:52:21] but my particular favourite

[00:52:23] is the one that appears to have

[00:52:25] like a stuffed toy of a dog

[00:52:27] sort of emerging from the top of his helmet

[00:52:29] Yeah it looks like a sort of

[00:52:31] plushy dog-eared orange

[00:52:33] with fluffy ears as well

[00:52:35] so he's just hilarious

[00:52:37] Most 70s moment

[00:52:41] That's a tough call isn't it because

[00:52:43] it's made by people who

[00:52:45] weren't really a part of the

[00:52:47] 70s even in the 70s

[00:52:49] and it's set in medieval times

[00:52:51] Yeah

[00:52:53] Nothing stands out to me

[00:52:55] I suppose maybe the 1970s van

[00:52:57] that appears in one of the shots

[00:52:59] towards the end when the black knight

[00:53:01] falls off his horse

[00:53:03] You literally see half of the make-up van

[00:53:05] in the shot

[00:53:07] I suppose that's the most 1970s thing in the movie

[00:53:09] That's amazing

[00:53:13] I think Gilligan mentions this

[00:53:15] and he says that you don't notice

[00:53:17] oddly enough you don't notice

[00:53:19] I didn't notice it

[00:53:21] It's a very fast shot

[00:53:23] it's about 12 frames long that shot

[00:53:25] and the van is the same colour as much of the background anyway

[00:53:27] so it doesn't stand out

[00:53:29] but it is really there when you notice it

[00:53:31] it's really quite prominent when you see it

[00:53:33] Right

[00:53:35] I thought the most 70s thing about this

[00:53:37] was the needless female

[00:53:39] full-frontal nudity

[00:53:41] I don't think about that actually yet

[00:53:43] Poor Deborah Fallender

[00:53:45] as the princess and American

[00:53:47] so she's shipped over to merry old England

[00:53:49] and then forced to do that

[00:53:51] It's the same as the full-frontal

[00:53:53] in Life of Brian

[00:53:55] it's not exploitative in and of itself

[00:53:57] and it does serve the joke

[00:53:59] it is funny but yeah

[00:54:01] it's still pretty 70s

[00:54:03] Favourite scene

[00:54:05] I'm not sure I have a particularly favourite scene

[00:54:07] I do have a favourite shot

[00:54:09] however

[00:54:11] and it's during the jousting

[00:54:13] and there is just this glory

[00:54:15] a slow motion shot

[00:54:17] of just bits of night

[00:54:19] flying through the scene

[00:54:21] with a spray of blood

[00:54:23] and King Bruno in the background

[00:54:25] just looking utterly delighted

[00:54:27] with the goings on

[00:54:29] it's just clearly enjoying the fact that

[00:54:31] despite all of his advisers

[00:54:33] advice that this is wasteful

[00:54:35] that they're just killing vast

[00:54:37] waves of nights that they don't have

[00:54:39] many of and there's no point to it

[00:54:41] but he just loves this

[00:54:43] as a form of entertainment

[00:54:45] thinks it's great

[00:54:47] He's got such a fantastic demented grin

[00:54:49] that he keeps staring at Max Wall

[00:54:51] in that scene as he's getting more and more covered in blood

[00:54:53] Yes

[00:54:55] and nobody mentions it

[00:54:57] you keep cutting back to them

[00:54:59] it's just more and more blood on them

[00:55:01] and nobody's mentioning it

[00:55:03] they're sitting in the royal box soaked by the end of it

[00:55:05] like it's a lot of blood

[00:55:07] but it almost looks like a painting

[00:55:09] by the end of it

[00:55:11] it's quite striking

[00:55:13] it's grotesque and humorous

[00:55:15] but also beautiful

[00:55:17] I don't know

[00:55:19] Caravaggio by way of

[00:55:21] Bosch basically

[00:55:23] which is kind of the look of the whole film

[00:55:25] pretty much

[00:55:27] Most cliche moment

[00:55:29] in terms of movie cliches

[00:55:31] I don't think it's that bad

[00:55:33] but in terms of Terry Gilliam cliches

[00:55:35] and Monty Python cliches up to a point

[00:55:37] just the dirt

[00:55:39] and the horror and the griminess

[00:55:41] I suppose that's a cliché

[00:55:43] for these guys

[00:55:45] but it's also one of the most appealing things

[00:55:47] about it for me

[00:55:49] the atmosphere

[00:55:51] of filth and horror

[00:55:53] and misery

[00:55:55] and Gilliam's great at this

[00:55:57] in all of his films and it is a Terry Gilliam cliché

[00:55:59] the way he layers

[00:56:01] the sound in the background

[00:56:03] so that they're often just characters

[00:56:05] you've never met but you can just hear someone

[00:56:07] wailing in misery

[00:56:09] just somewhere distant in the background

[00:56:11] and you can hear the flies buzzing around

[00:56:13] the corpses and that's a cliché

[00:56:15] I guess for Gilliam

[00:56:17] and it's one that I love and it really works

[00:56:19] yeah, yeah, yeah

[00:56:21] I was going to go with

[00:56:23] The Accidental Hero

[00:56:25] which particularly

[00:56:27] in comedies of course

[00:56:29] being reminded of Army of Darkness

[00:56:31] while I was watching it although of course

[00:56:33] that's Sam Raimi and much later

[00:56:35] so that's interesting

[00:56:37] but also The Wizard of Oz

[00:56:39] so Dorothy shows up and kills one witch

[00:56:41] and then accidentally kills another one later on

[00:56:43] yeah

[00:56:45] so yeah, I feel like The Accidental Hero

[00:56:47] is quite a good dirt

[00:56:49] it's a hero's journey movie isn't it

[00:56:51] I'd never thought about this before

[00:56:53] but it is essentially the monometh

[00:56:55] it really is although it doesn't have

[00:56:57] a traditional character arc

[00:56:59] because I mean

[00:57:01] tell me if I'm wrong but I don't think Dennis learns anything

[00:57:03] during the course of this movie

[00:57:05] yeah

[00:57:07] if it counts it has to be

[00:57:09] the Jabba Walk itself

[00:57:11] which is, I think it's just fabulous

[00:57:13] again I was watching it with my son

[00:57:15] and he kept saying do you actually see the monster

[00:57:17] are we ever actually going to see the monster

[00:57:19] and I was kind of thinking

[00:57:21] we will but don't get too

[00:57:23] excited because you know you used to

[00:57:25] Marvel movies and so on

[00:57:27] but it ended up being a lot more

[00:57:29] convincing and used a lot more

[00:57:31] as well in that final scene than I remembered

[00:57:33] for some reason and it's just such a great design

[00:57:35] as we've said based on the original

[00:57:37] illustration the whole thing is

[00:57:39] decomposing like everything else in this world

[00:57:41] it's old and broken

[00:57:43] and falling apart and presumably

[00:57:45] used to be able to fly

[00:57:47] which it doesn't really do

[00:57:49] it kind of flaps about some trees and stuff I think

[00:57:51] but you know I don't think it can actually fly anymore

[00:57:53] and just part of this world

[00:57:55] definitely yeah

[00:57:57] my favourite was

[00:57:59] we've mentioned it before the Jabba Walk's victims

[00:58:01] bodies

[00:58:03] just these juicy

[00:58:05] skeletons seemingly stripped of everything

[00:58:07] other than the heads which are pristine

[00:58:09] and left to sort of

[00:58:11] look at their terrible

[00:58:13] state that they're in horror

[00:58:15] which is strangely more horrifying

[00:58:17] in fact the American

[00:58:19] sensor was determined to cut those shots out

[00:58:21] because they found that particularly disturbing

[00:58:23] they said

[00:58:25] yeah the skeleton's fine but the head

[00:58:27] looking down is just really

[00:58:29] disturbing can you cut

[00:58:31] before you get to that

[00:58:33] Favourite sound

[00:58:35] I've mentioned the flies

[00:58:37] and just the general sort of background horror

[00:58:39] texture and so on but it is

[00:58:41] the sound of a knight being

[00:58:43] held to the ground

[00:58:45] Gilliam manages to get or the sound designer

[00:58:47] manages to get so much

[00:58:49] intense weight

[00:58:51] into the clanging of armour

[00:58:53] it sounds like the earth

[00:58:55] is being broken by the impact

[00:58:57] of this knight

[00:58:59] I don't know why but I just love those sounds

[00:59:01] I love all the sounds of the knights

[00:59:03] clanking and creaking

[00:59:05] and so on but especially when they're

[00:59:07] smashed by something or thrown to the ground

[00:59:09] yeah a lot of impact

[00:59:11] mine was just

[00:59:13] an old friend of ours Dan and I heard it

[00:59:15] within like the opening seconds

[00:59:17] I don't know what you're going to say

[00:59:19] it's the red tailed hawk

[00:59:23] you have to have a red tailed hawk

[00:59:25] it doesn't matter where you are in the world

[00:59:27] yeah I mean normally it's used

[00:59:29] to symbolise

[00:59:31] the wild west or like

[00:59:33] the wilderness in America

[00:59:35] but it's used like

[00:59:37] three or four times in this movie

[00:59:39] yeah

[00:59:41] I think I know the effect you mean

[00:59:43] actually I think I know the

[00:59:45] birds screech

[00:59:47] yeah there's a familiar

[00:59:49] it's usually in a cartoon you would

[00:59:51] cut to a desert and hear that noise

[00:59:53] I was going to say yeah I feel like it's used a lot

[00:59:55] in He-Man I don't know if I'm imagining that

[00:59:57] probably yes

[00:59:59] I think you're right

[01:00:01] most funniest moment

[01:00:03] the scene I remember most

[01:00:05] is in the workshop where

[01:00:07] Dennis destroys everything by trying to be

[01:00:09] helpful ever since I was a child

[01:00:11] when I think of Jabba Wookie I pictured

[01:00:13] Dennis moving that

[01:00:15] tray of rivets

[01:00:17] instigating the destruction

[01:00:19] of half the kingdom basically it seems

[01:00:21] yeah

[01:00:25] and shot in like a day or something

[01:00:27] was it?

[01:00:29] I think it's Harry H Corbyt's intro as well

[01:00:31] that's his first scene I think

[01:00:33] and yeah I love

[01:00:35] that scene it escalates

[01:00:37] to the extreme that I didn't

[01:00:39] even think it would go

[01:00:41] huge big cog wheels

[01:00:43] are falling over

[01:00:45] and people are getting flung

[01:00:47] horizontally across the room

[01:00:49] somehow

[01:00:51] and then right at the end

[01:00:53] one of the characters just pushes a pillar over

[01:00:55] because he's just like well might as well

[01:00:57] yeah funny

[01:00:59] is seen for me aside from being

[01:01:01] one of my favorite shots the source

[01:01:03] of one of my favorite shots it is the Jowl

[01:01:05] Sting yeah and I think it's just

[01:01:07] the cartoon mayhem of it

[01:01:09] and the senselessness of it all

[01:01:11] but I do enjoy that scene a great deal

[01:01:13] it's the one that I found myself

[01:01:15] laughing the most and also the satire

[01:01:17] of the monarchy being slowly drenched

[01:01:19] in blood as a result of their carelessness

[01:01:21] yeah and also what

[01:01:23] the scene going on there's the violence

[01:01:25] and so on of the Jows but they're

[01:01:27] just kind of chatting amongst themselves

[01:01:29] John LaMairs and Max Wall

[01:01:31] and their dialogue

[01:01:33] is brilliant in that scene as well

[01:01:35] it's all very very funny stuff

[01:01:37] it is yeah

[01:01:39] okay

[01:01:41] and that's our Mubli Awards

[01:01:45] Hi I'm Chris McKay I'm the director

[01:01:48] of Renfield and you're listening

[01:01:50] to Movie Oubliette

[01:01:54] Okay it's time for our final verdict

[01:01:56] should Jabba Wacky from 1977

[01:01:58] be released from the

[01:02:00] Oubliette to terrorize the land

[01:02:02] and be worshiped by its silliness

[01:02:04] or should it be urinated on

[01:02:06] strapped word trippichet

[01:02:08] and flung back into the Oubliette

[01:02:10] lost forever

[01:02:12] Rob Jabba Wacky

[01:02:14] should modern audience

[01:02:16] see this movie?

[01:02:18] Yeah I think the answer to that question

[01:02:20] is both of those things should happen to it because

[01:02:22] people should obviously see it

[01:02:24] but I mean if any movie

[01:02:26] should be urinated on it's this one

[01:02:28] because it would love it

[01:02:30] it wants to be urinated but it wants to be

[01:02:32] hurled about, it wants to be treated badly

[01:02:34] but I mean obviously I'm going to say

[01:02:36] people should see it and

[01:02:38] people should see it with an open mind

[01:02:40] don't see it expecting Monty Python

[01:02:42] because I'm still

[01:02:44] kind of staggered at how poorly

[01:02:46] received and poorly considered this

[01:02:48] film is because I genuinely think

[01:02:50] it's a masterpiece, cinema doesn't get

[01:02:52] much better than this for me

[01:02:54] and it deserves all the attention

[01:02:56] and it deserves a reappraisal

[01:02:58] Yeah I mean I don't know whether I would

[01:03:00] recommend this to everyone

[01:03:02] I felt like there were lots of jokes

[01:03:04] I didn't get, there were lots of references

[01:03:06] and actors that I had no idea

[01:03:08] who they were

[01:03:10] I do get that it's

[01:03:12] important in terms of the

[01:03:14] trajectory of Terry Gilliam

[01:03:16] and Monty Python

[01:03:18] as just like a cultural icon

[01:03:20] of a time

[01:03:22] There is a lot of humour in this movie

[01:03:24] that you just don't see anymore

[01:03:26] and it is very much of

[01:03:28] that sort of era and that

[01:03:30] type of humour and yeah

[01:03:32] maybe modern audiences wouldn't get it

[01:03:34] but it is important

[01:03:36] I think in terms of

[01:03:38] Terry Gilliam and that sort of

[01:03:40] path of cinema as well

[01:03:42] in Britain I guess

[01:03:44] So

[01:03:46] you would say that you would

[01:03:48] I would, I would

[01:03:50] You can't say otherwise

[01:03:52] now there's nothing at you

[01:03:54] Well no

[01:03:56] I have to say I am in two minds about it though

[01:03:58] I didn't go into it thinking

[01:04:00] it's going to be Monty Python

[01:04:02] and I didn't go into it thinking

[01:04:04] it's going to be fully fledged Terry Gilliam

[01:04:06] and I think you have to do that

[01:04:08] because it's not, it really is a transitional

[01:04:10] film but for all that

[01:04:12] I did find the first viewing

[01:04:14] I did think well the middle is

[01:04:16] a bit saggy, I sort of love the ending

[01:04:18] I love the beginning

[01:04:20] and I love bits of the middle

[01:04:22] but I'm sort of a bit confused

[01:04:24] It was only when I watched it a second time

[01:04:26] that I thought oh actually

[01:04:28] this is just a good time for a hundred minutes

[01:04:30] Yeah, I think it's a expectation

[01:04:32] Beautifully crafted

[01:04:34] It's a expectation you go into it thinking

[01:04:36] oh it's going to be a dragon film I guess

[01:04:38] and it's not really

[01:04:40] it's just a lot of dialogue

[01:04:42] and ridiculous

[01:04:44] absurdity

[01:04:46] Yeah it is

[01:04:48] I think that's a valid point about the middle

[01:04:50] I think it could be five minutes shorter

[01:04:52] probably I think that lost from the middle

[01:04:54] to the end of the work out

[01:04:56] I think so

[01:04:58] but I think on the whole I can't possibly

[01:05:00] see myself throwing it back into the

[01:05:02] Ubliette and not recommending it just because

[01:05:04] it is such a beautifully made

[01:05:06] film with such a treasure trove

[01:05:08] of wonderful performances and moments

[01:05:10] and it would just seem ashamed

[01:05:12] to throw it in there

[01:05:14] or even claim that it's a bad movie

[01:05:16] and it's not a so bad it's good movie

[01:05:18] or anything along those lines

[01:05:20] it's just odd, it's an odd little

[01:05:22] movie and it's not who Terry became

[01:05:24] it's not who Monty Python were

[01:05:26] it's just this odd little

[01:05:28] movie and I think it'd be a shame

[01:05:30] if people overlooked it

[01:05:32] so yeah just go into it with the right

[01:05:34] mindset I think

[01:05:36] And in the right mood as well

[01:05:38] it's not something to be taken too seriously

[01:05:40] it's something I think works with a drink

[01:05:42] or with a friend

[01:05:44] that's the way to do it I think

[01:05:46] I'd agree

[01:05:48] Well I think we're all on the same page

[01:05:50] check in with our patrons

[01:05:52] Hello Hal?

[01:05:54] Can I have the patrons vote please?

[01:05:58] I didn't see this coming

[01:06:00] they want to chuck it back in

[01:06:02] I can't believe it

[01:06:04] Well they were all Americans

[01:06:06] that, that, that, that

[01:06:08] I don't know

[01:06:10] Eddie Coulter said I say let the

[01:06:12] Jabberwocky run wild

[01:06:14] I've been a fan of this movie since I first saw it on VHS

[01:06:16] you can see

[01:06:18] the films that Gilliam will build upon in his later films

[01:06:20] plus how can you not

[01:06:22] love the design of that monster

[01:06:24] Well said

[01:06:26] Whereas Chazilla said

[01:06:28] I'm on the fence with this one

[01:06:30] this isn't official Monty Python but it's

[01:06:32] some of the troupe and definitely that

[01:06:34] kind of humour sometimes I

[01:06:36] get it, sometimes I don't

[01:06:38] I think the title Jabberwocky

[01:06:40] is very misleading

[01:06:42] you don't actually see the Jabberwocky until

[01:06:44] ten minutes from the end

[01:06:46] I think a better name for it would be

[01:06:48] Dennis's Continuing Adventures

[01:06:50] in the Land of Filth

[01:06:56] I think that could be a subtitle

[01:06:58] couldn't there, you know one of those

[01:07:00] Cologne movies

[01:07:02] and finally our patron Jasmine said

[01:07:04] I went into this expecting a lot

[01:07:06] of fun adventure and good belly laughs

[01:07:08] instead I was confronted with

[01:07:10] meandering redundant scenes

[01:07:12] of Michael Palin wandering the city

[01:07:14] a quest that does not

[01:07:16] truly kick in until 82 minutes

[01:07:18] into the film and quote-unquote

[01:07:20] humour involving body parts

[01:07:22] blood splatter

[01:07:24] and our hero being figuratively

[01:07:26] and literally urinated on

[01:07:28] over and over again

[01:07:30] I didn't even crack a smile

[01:07:32] until the 103 minute mark

[01:07:34] and that was when the end credits

[01:07:36] mercifully rolled

[01:07:40] so yeah, a broad

[01:07:42] spectrum of views

[01:07:44] yeah, yeah, yeah

[01:07:46] I think overall I think we're setting it free

[01:07:48] yes, yeah, let's go on free

[01:07:50] okay, off you go Jabberwock

[01:07:57] so Rob it's been absolutely

[01:07:59] delightful to have you on the show

[01:08:01] where can our listeners

[01:08:03] follow you and find out more

[01:08:05] about what you have coming up next

[01:08:07] well YouTube is my main home

[01:08:09] my channel is called the Bad Movie Bible

[01:08:11] check me out there

[01:08:13] I do an awful lot of social media if I'm honest

[01:08:15] but I am on Twitter

[01:08:17] I still call it Twitter as a point of principle

[01:08:19] I am on Twitter

[01:08:21] and I'm reasonably active there still

[01:08:23] but YouTube's the place to go really

[01:08:25] it's brave of you to be active on Twitter

[01:08:27] it's very much like a Terry Gilliam

[01:08:29] quarry now

[01:08:31] with just a few burning bits

[01:08:33] and horrible people

[01:08:37] yeah, that's fair enough

[01:08:39] is there a video coming up

[01:08:41] on the editing table at the moment

[01:08:43] maybe? yeah, I'm working at the moment

[01:08:45] I had a big project at the end of last year

[01:08:47] was on Ninja Movies

[01:08:49] the broad history of the 1980s

[01:08:51] Ninja Movie craze

[01:08:53] and I'm working at the moment on

[01:08:55] an episode of Borrowing Blockbusters

[01:08:57] which is my main series looking at the best

[01:08:59] and worst but mainly the best worst

[01:09:01] rip-offs of

[01:09:03] famous or popular genre movies

[01:09:05] and I'm doing an Indiana Jones

[01:09:07] episode at the moment

[01:09:09] should be up next month

[01:09:11] marvelous, I will look forward to that

[01:09:15] well thanks so much for joining us

[01:09:17] thanks for having me, it's been great

[01:09:19] so listeners, if you do want to follow us

[01:09:21] we are on all social media platforms

[01:09:23] as Movie.Ubliate

[01:09:25] including TikTok

[01:09:27] but you can also email us

[01:09:29] the old fashioned way

[01:09:31] at movie.ubliate

[01:09:33] at gmail.com

[01:09:35] I almost wish that people could write to us

[01:09:37] the old paper way

[01:09:39] like snail mail

[01:09:41] and we had a PO box number

[01:09:43] that would be great

[01:09:45] and we actually have real mailbag

[01:09:47] that we have to physically open

[01:09:49] you could hear the paper

[01:09:51] crinkling noises on the show

[01:09:53] I think that would be lovely

[01:09:55] ASMR

[01:09:57] maybe we will organize a PO box

[01:09:59] sometime

[01:10:03] meanwhile if you would like to support the show

[01:10:05] maybe to pay for our PO box

[01:10:07] then head on over to Patreon

[01:10:09] where for as little as a dollar

[01:10:11] you can nominate and vote on films

[01:10:13] that will be featuring in future episodes

[01:10:15] for five dollars

[01:10:17] you can vote on the final verdict

[01:10:19] and get access to our exclusive monthly

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[01:10:25] producer with exclusive behind the scenes

[01:10:27] knowledge

[01:10:29] like Chazilla, Eddie Coulter, Isaac Sutton

[01:10:31] Dr. Doggy, Serge

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[01:10:35] yes, we have

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[01:10:41] you can peruse through

[01:10:43] and if you haven't given us a rating

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[01:10:51] five star review and all your nice comments

[01:10:53] yes, loads of them

[01:10:57] okay next episode

[01:10:59] Conrad what are we doing

[01:11:01] well we're going to be celebrating

[01:11:03] the release of Denny Villeneuve's

[01:11:05] Dune Part 2

[01:11:07] starring Timotage Shalemaheim

[01:11:09] yes, yes, yes

[01:11:11] by doing something that you've been wanting to do for a very long time

[01:11:13] which is

[01:11:15] the 1984 American

[01:11:17] epic space opera

[01:11:19] Dune

[01:11:21] yeah, yes

[01:11:23] I read the book, this was one of those rare occasions

[01:11:27] I've actually read the book and I've read the sequel

[01:11:29] is this the first time we're doing David Lynch

[01:11:31] on the podcast

[01:11:33] I think it is, yeah

[01:11:35] I think it is, yeah, David Lynch

[01:11:37] is only major flop I think

[01:11:39] really, right, right, yeah

[01:11:41] I mean he never did

[01:11:43] the whole blockbuster thing anyway

[01:11:45] so this is quite unusual

[01:11:47] no, I think famously George Lucas

[01:11:49] was trying to get him

[01:11:51] to direct Return of the Jedi

[01:11:53] really, I don't know that

[01:11:55] yes, but he showed up at industrial light

[01:11:57] and magic with a massive headache

[01:11:59] and nothing that transpired during the rest of his visit

[01:12:01] right made it any better

[01:12:03] so that was the end of that

[01:12:05] wow, okay

[01:12:07] can you imagine David Lynch's return

[01:12:09] of the Jedi

[01:12:11] I would love to see that

[01:12:13] yeah, I would actually

[01:12:15] but yes, no, instead we've got his take on

[01:12:17] Dune featuring

[01:12:19] Karl McLaughlin, Patrick

[01:12:21] Stuart, Brad Durif, Dean Stockwell

[01:12:23] Virginia Madsen, Jose Ferrer

[01:12:25] Sting, Linda Hunt

[01:12:27] and Max von Siddowl

[01:12:31] quite the cast, yeah

[01:12:33] pretty an amazing lineup

[01:12:35] but a massive flop

[01:12:37] so, yeah

[01:12:39] about time for a retrospective I think

[01:12:41] yeah, yeah, and I have the source material

[01:12:43] in my brain

[01:12:45] that I can compare

[01:12:47] maybe it will be better than Dreamcatcher

[01:12:49] maybe, who knows

[01:12:51] the doc didn't eat this one

[01:12:53] no, no, I have the book in tact

[01:12:55] yeah

[01:12:57] okay

[01:12:59] well, we'll look forward to that next time

[01:13:01] yes, yes, alright listeners

[01:13:03] until then, bye, goodbye