C.H.U.D.

[00:00:04] Welcome to Movie Oubliette, the film review podcast for movies that most people have mercifully forgotten. I'm Dan. And I'm Conrad. And in each episode, we drag a forsaken film out of the Oubliette. Discuss it and judge it to decide whether it should be set free. Or whether it should be thrown back and consigned to oblivion forever.

[00:00:37] Movie Oubliette Happy New Year and welcome to episode 166 of Movie Oubliette, the hemisphere-hopping podcast for forgotten fantastical films with me, Conrad, trying Duolingo in Cambridge, UK. Oh, and me, Dan, booking a class in hand-building pottery in Melbourne, Australia.

[00:01:06] We focus on forgotten fantasy, sci-fi and horror films because we love sword-wielding perfume models, toxic waste conspiracies and mutant homeless people with glowing eyes. Oh, yes. Yeah. Just in time for the new year. 2025, Conrad. I know. And what is this, our sixth year of the podcast now? Is that right? I think it's the seventh year. I feel like we started in 2018.

[00:01:36] I think that's when we started. Yeah. So. But halfway through the year. So maybe we hit those. Oh, yeah, yeah. True. Seven-year anniversary halfway through. Yeah. Yes. That's right. Yes, yes, yes. Gosh. Amazing. Yeah. Unfortunately, starting off the new year with some passings. David Lynch has passed. The one and only. Yeah. Very sad news. Yeah. Yeah. I was very sad to see that news.

[00:02:01] And I think on the same day, Gianno Swarck, who we've covered one of his films. Yeah. Which is Santa Claus. The movie. Yes. That movie. Yeah. Yes. I think we should cover some of his other films this year in tribute. Yeah. I think we should. Yeah. I don't know if we could cover any more David Lynch films. We did Dune last year. Yeah. Yeah. The only other movies I haven't watched are A Straight Story and Elephant Man.

[00:02:29] I don't know why I haven't watched them, but I need to. I need to. Yeah. You should. They're probably his most accessible films, I would say. I thought Wild at Heart was pretty accessible. I mean, it was still disturbing, but it felt like a movie. Like a semi-normal movie with story and not too much weirdness. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the weirdness will be sorely missed. Yes. Yes, it will be.

[00:02:59] Yes. So Duolingo, Conrad. I have used Duolingo in the past. And for some reason, you're always talking about apples. I don't know why. It's like, do I need an apple? Can I eat an apple? I will eat an apple. Here, have an apple. Maybe it was, I was learning Italian at the time. Maybe it's the Italian version. I'm not sure. Oh, maybe. Yeah.

[00:03:25] So I'm trying French and apples have not featured thus far. Okay. No apples. No, I've been feeling sick and sleeping too little quite a lot so far. Okay. Maybe it's a French thing. Maybe. Maybe they're all tired and unwell. French people, let us know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But very much an obvious New Year's resolution. Is your class the same?

[00:03:55] So, yeah. Actually, I was gifted this hand-building pottery class for my birthday last year. And I haven't used it yet. But I've booked a class in. So in February, we're going to be attending. And hand-building, I don't know anything about pottery. I have done one pottery class in the past. It was wheel throwing.

[00:04:18] So it's your classic ghost pottery where you've got the turning wheel and the lump of clay and you're molding it into a circular object. Hand-building is a different way of pottery where it's, there are different things that you can make. So I think you can make mugs, but not in the same way. It's to do with slabs of clay that you either flatten out or you put over a mold, like a plate mold,

[00:04:47] so that you can have the curved edges. Or you sort of make a cylinder out of it to make a mug or something like that. So it's going to be a completely different technique of pottery. Yeah, fascinating. So how long will it be before you have a kiln at home? Oh, never. I mean, I did love doing the wheel throwing pottery. I made a couple of bowls, which I do use. So I'm quite proud of that.

[00:05:15] But it is quite an expensive hobby if you don't have a kiln or a wheel. But yeah, maybe, I don't know, maybe in my retirement, I'll start doing pottery. Selling it on the street side, yeah. Yes, yes. All right. Well, it's a new year. What have our listeners been saying? Well, we have a new patron, Nicky. Welcome aboard. Welcome, Nicky. Yes.

[00:05:44] Thank you so much for supporting the show. We really appreciate it. And we heard from Matt Movies on YouTube, because, of course, our podcasts are uploading to YouTube now. And in reference to Batman Returns, he said, fantastic episode. I do have to say, I lean more towards Conrad in this case. Oh. I don't hate Batman Returns. But as I revisit the movie, I dislike the fact that Batman feels like a secondary character.

[00:06:13] Not to mention the sets look, well, like sets unlike the 89 film. Overall, it still has great qualities to it, like Michelle Pfeiffer and Michael Keaton's performances. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I did feel like Batman was a bit sidelined revisiting it, which I never picked up before. Yeah. I think it's often the case in sequels where they introduce too many villains.

[00:06:41] I don't know why you need 86 villains in one movie. Well, I mean, I think they went even more overboard in the sort of subsequent sequels. Like the last one, there's like, I don't even, there's like three villains and two new superheroes. And it's ridiculous. Yeah. That's one that's called Batman and Robin. When Robin was introduced in the previous movie and Batgirl is introduced in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's confusing. I don't know.

[00:07:11] I don't know what that would think. It's batshit quite literally. Yeah. And of course, we also heard from Serge of Cold Crash Pictures. Hello, Serge. Hello, Serge. And he said, Batman Returns has a strong aesthetic and a weak script. For me, it balances out to a film that I don't really feel too much about either way. Pfeiffer's performance is well worth preserving. But thankfully, it won't be forgotten anytime soon.

[00:07:39] So I'm happy to leave it in the movie you'll be at. Yeah. You've got quite a few companions, Conrad, for the same opinion. Yes. People coming away from it feeling sort of lukewarm about the movie overall. That's very interesting. It is. Yes. So keep telling us your interesting thoughts on movies. Let us know what you think. We love hearing from you. Yes. Yes. Yes. So we are kicking off the new year with a bang. This is a Patron's Choice episode, Conrad. Yes.

[00:08:09] This was chosen by Philippo, I believe. So I better find out what it is. Yes. Popping over to the Oubliette. Oh, I haven't been here for a while. A lot of cobwebs. Yeah. Well, I seem to be underground somewhere. Oh, it's very damp. Yeah. It's horrible. Oh, there's a Geiger counter down here. Radioactive. Oh. Oh.

[00:08:35] Look, there's a box over here that's stamped with various suspicious-looking government steps. Oh, okay. Oh, there's the movie. Right. This Geiger counter's going crazy. Whoa. What's that? I'm hearing that. Whoa. This ain't no disco. Oof. Wow. Perilous as ever. I know. The Oubliette's so threatening. So what do you have, Conrad?

[00:08:59] So I have brought back with me, we're back in the 80s, Dan, you'll be thrilled, the 1984 American science fiction horror film, Chud. Ooh. Thank you, Philippo, for choosing this one. Mm. Directed by Douglas Cheek, with a screenplay by Parnell Hall, based on a story by Shepard

[00:09:22] Abbott, starring John Hurd, Daniel Stern, Christopher Curry, Kim Greist, JC Quinn, and in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment, John Goodman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what happens in this movie? Well, when homeless people who inhabit the labyrinthine network of tunnels and caves beneath New York City start disappearing, an unlikely trio team up to investigate.

[00:09:51] George, a photographer who took time off from fashion shoots of his naked girlfriend, Lauren, to capture gritty images of the underground dwellers. Shepard, a soup kitchen worker who notices his regulars aren't showing up. Mm. And police captain Bosch, whose wife gets dragged into a manhole when she unwisely walks their dog down the centre of a deserted street in the middle of the night. Mm.

[00:10:17] They discover a voracious pack of cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers, or chuds, with glowing eyes, is preying upon the unsuspecting New Yorkers. But they also discover signs that sinister government types in contamination suits might know about it already. Oh. Where did the chuds come from? Should Lauren have left that trapdoor open in her basement?

[00:10:46] And can our trio raise the alarm before the authorities seal the tunnels and flood them with gas? Find out after the break. Yes.

[00:11:15] And we're back to talk about Chud. Had you seen this one before, Dad? No, but I do know of its reputation. Right. It wasn't exactly what I expected watching this movie. But had you seen it before, Conrad? No. No. It was one of those ones where it's a New World Pictures movie. So that's, you know, the Roger Corman house. It was very distinctive.

[00:11:41] The box art on the VHS and the rental store, you know, has the manhole cover with the creature emerging from it. You know, it looks very exploitative and cheap and nasty. And I just thought, oh, I can't be bothered. And never paid it any mind, really. Yeah. I always was under the impression it was going to be really bad. Yeah. Like horrible special effects, obviously. A person in a rubber suit. And like terrible acting. Yeah.

[00:12:10] And just like a really B-grade movie. Which it wasn't when I watched it. But yeah. So both of us had not watched it. So I guess it is technically also a double blind. Yes. Double blind. So what were your impressions of watching it for the first time?

[00:12:33] I guess the first thing that struck me was that it has so much more focus on character than I was anticipating. It reminded me of something like that much celebrated late 70s version of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, where it creates much more of a sense of a milieu around a city. I mean, obviously Body Snatchers set in San Francisco, I think. Whereas this is very much New York. Yeah.

[00:12:58] And it is a New York movie with a whole bunch of incredibly talented New York actors who are way above the caliber of a cheap exploitation quickie. And so the scenes in between monster attacks are far more nuanced, layered, interesting, with quirky and fun dialogue than I was really expecting. So I was taken by surprise. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:24] What really surprised me is how many characters there are, like main characters. They're not like side characters. It's not just Bosch, the only character investigating missing people and the monsters in the sewers. It's like a bunch of people. So you have, yeah, you've got your three characters, George, the photographer, who's involved with the homeless people because he's doing an article.

[00:13:51] He's like photographing for an article about them. And then you've got Bosch, the police captain, who's trying to investigate the missing people. And also his missing wife, who he doesn't mention for a good 25 minutes into the film, which I thought was very strange. Yeah, what is that about? We'll come back to that. And then we've also got Shepard, the soup kitchen worker, who's very heavily involved with the homeless people, obviously,

[00:14:21] and trying to figure out why they're really scared. One of them, Victor, wants to get a gun. So, yeah, you've got all these three people from completely different walks of life kind of involved in this mystery of like what is going on. And you also have Lauren as well, who's the girlfriend of George, who does kind of stumble into it as well by getting attacked. But yeah, so Bosch.

[00:14:50] I didn't even know his wife was the first character in the movie that gets taken by the creature. I thought it was just some random person because horror movies always normally start with a random person getting attacked who doesn't even, it's not even that important. It's just like, okay, creature attacks person.

[00:15:12] But yeah, 25 minutes into the movie, George exclaims like why he's so interested in finding out about the missing people is because his wife has gone missing. And it's just such strange behavior. Like he never mentions her. He's never, he doesn't seem distressed up until that point. It's weird. Yeah, it's really peculiar. He doesn't mention it at work. And he's a police officer.

[00:15:38] You would think that his colleagues would be looking out for him and asking him why he's working. Or maybe he would be personally invested in the case in a really tangible, palpable way. But he doesn't seem to be particularly, he just seems to be doing his job. Yeah. So I was really baffled when he found his wife's disembodied head. Yes, yes. Yeah. There only seems to be two scenes in the entire movie that even concerned about his wife.

[00:16:08] So when he, yeah, when he reveals to, I think it was Shepard that his wife is missing. And then, yeah, when he finds her body because she's dead and he's obviously very distressed at that point. Yeah. But those are the only two parts of the movie that even involve him and his wife or talking about his wife. It's very strange. I feel like maybe were there scenes cut out of the movie that talk about her a bit more?

[00:16:37] I'm so confused. Well, there is some production shenanigans involved in this movie that possibly reshaped it in post-production. Certainly, you get the sense from the commentary with Douglas Cheek that there is no love lost between him and the producer, Andrew Bonime. Oh. Or Bonime. I'm not quite sure how you pronounce that. But yeah, there is a sense that Douglas was locked out of the editing room. Wow.

[00:17:07] He had no interaction with the composers of the score, for example. They comment that they've never met him or spoken to him. Wow. Okay. So there is a real sense that Douglas was trying to make one kind of movie and Andrew Bonime was trying to make something else. And this weird hybrid is what we ended up with. In fact, the theatrical version is probably not the version we saw.

[00:17:32] We probably watched a reconstructed, I think they call it the integral cut, where they've taken the director's cut and they've sort of removed some of the stuff that the producer put in that didn't really make any sense. So yeah, it's a bit of a hybrid in terms of whose vision is this.

[00:17:51] And in terms of the writing, I know that a couple of the actors, I think Daniel Stern and Christopher Cross maybe, or maybe John Heard as well, have claimed that they wrote most of them. Well, half of the movie, I think they've claimed that they wrote. Right, right. Yeah. I think, yeah, I do remember some of the behind the scenes, someone mentioning that some of the scenes were improvised. And while watching it, some of the scenes do feel improvised.

[00:18:18] Especially that scene with Daniel Stern and that big meeting with the other officials. Like, it does feel like, yeah, you're improvising this for sure. Like, it doesn't seem like a script. But I mean, I quite liked it. There were quite a lot of dialogue scenes, which was surprising. Yeah. For a monster movie, there's not a lot of monster to be had until the last act, I think, pretty much is where most of the monster action happens.

[00:18:47] Yeah, I did find the first hour a little slow because of the strong focus on dialogue and characters. But in retrospect, I do think it's important. Like, they do establish these characters really well.

[00:19:03] And it doesn't do what a lot of horror and monster movies, creature features tend to do, where it's one or two characters and everyone else is just cannon fodder for the monsters to just kill. Whereas it wasn't really like that in this movie. Like, I do feel like all the characters were quite important, even Lauren. Yeah, Lauren's not very active.

[00:19:26] She kind of vanishes from the movie during the second act and reappears at the end for a woman in peril finale. But crucially, she's not rescued by a man. She kicks ass. Yeah, no, she does. She really does. Yeah. Good on it. So, you know, it's all about her resourcefulness. There's not a lot for her to do in the middle. There is a subplot in which she and George, the photographer, realise that she is pregnant.

[00:19:55] There is some discussion about whether they're going to have the baby or not. But then that kind of goes away. It doesn't seem to signify anything. No, no, not really. There are a few side characters that I questioned why they're there. So, Murphy, the freelance reporter, is just kind of shoved in there for not a lot of reason. He gets killed by one of the chads.

[00:20:23] There's a really awkward scene where George and Lauren are talking about her pregnancy or whatever. And he's just in the background, just kind of loitering. Murphy's in the background loitering. And then he kind of just approaches them really awkwardly and introduces himself. It's a really strange scene. Yeah. And there's also that curious character that eats pennies. Oh, yes.

[00:20:53] Yes. Yeah. I wanted to ask about that. So, he's a cop that's been ordered to tail Shepard? Is that right? I think he's a representative of, you know, shadowy government agency. Oh, is he? Oh, yeah. So, he's not part of the police. Okay. Right. No, he's played by John Bedford Lloyd, who we have come across before in The Abyss, where he plays Jammer. Okay.

[00:21:18] The big guy that is in a coma for most of the movie, but then wakes up in time to punch one of Michael Bane's marines out and help out everybody. Yeah. So, he's just doing things in the background that sort of undermine them occasionally. Yeah. He locks Shepard in the sewer at one point. And I'm not sure why. Possibly because he knows too much. So, they're just wanting to kill him along with the chuds in the gas flood, maybe. Right. Really? Yes. Wow. Oh, yes.

[00:21:48] It's very much your 80s sinister government agency doing something bad and trying to keep it a secret. Oh, right, right. So, we should go back to talking about New York City. It does feel like another character in this movie. Like, it's showcased quite heavily. You see Central Park.

[00:22:18] You see... Do you see the Twin Towers at one point? Or Brooklyn Bridge? You do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it is very much a part of this movie. And when they go into the sewers, it really does feel like New York. I love the setting. Yeah, me too. It's some grimy 80s New York as well. So, everything is just really, really dirty. Yeah. Run down. The production designers talks about trying to capture that Lower East Side feeling. Sure, sure.

[00:22:45] And it was shot under the Manhattan side of the Brooklyn Bridge and in abandoned parts of the subway system under the municipal building near City Hall. So, it's a lot of location work. And even their sets, the sewer set, which they built with two branches, was built in a loft apartment up on, like, the fifth floor. So, they had one of these enormous open plan spaces and built a sewer in it. And it blows my mind, actually. Yeah.

[00:23:14] Like, if you go... Just thinking that you have to go up a few stories into a big building and you walk into a sewer. A dank sewer. Yeah. With slimy water. With water and, like, brick walls and everything. That's an incredible set design. It really is. No, you get the sense that you're there. You can almost kind of smell it. Oh, yeah. It's not a glamorous depiction of New York or of the people who live there. Because that was the other thing I was going to say.

[00:23:44] I mean, not to disparage this fine, lovely cast, but they all look like shit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like it. I like the griminess and the filthiness of it all. Like, it does feel very like New York lived in... This was a hard decade to live through kind of thing. And I love that sort of the sewer location as well.

[00:24:11] Like, I was trying to think of other sewer movies that came out in the 80s. And there's Alligator from 1980. There's a movie called Deadly Eyes, which is about, like, these killer rats. Came out in 1982. And then there's a few other kind of more obscure stuff, like Slugs, Scared to Death. But then The Blob is the remake of The Blob in 1988 has some sewer scenes. And, of course, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in 1990.

[00:24:41] And the IT TV miniseries in 1990 as well. So, a lot of sessions with sewers in the 80s and 90s. Yeah. But I guess it is quite an integral part of New York. Like, if you lived in New York, like... I mean, you've got the underground as well. So, it's a great setting. I love it. It is a great setting. Yeah, another one that you didn't mention that I was quite fond of in the late 80s. And early 90s was the TV series Beauty and the Beast.

[00:25:11] Oh, okay. Right. I don't know if you saw that. But that featured Linda Hamilton of The Terminator and, of course, Ron Perlman. Right. Which is before I knew who he was. I didn't know who he was. But he was the beast. Yeah, yeah. And I love that show. So, that depicted a whole magical fairy tale society living in the sewers. And I always remember from a sound design perspective that they communicated in Morse code by tapping on the pipes. Ah, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.

[00:25:39] I'm also reminded of Mimic from 1997, which is also a creature feature in the sewers. Yes. And Ghostbusters 2 is quite similar to this movie in terms of, like, there's something going on in the sewers. And the government's trying to... Well, the mayor's trying to cover it up. It's like, there's nothing going on. It's fine. Oh, yeah. You've always got to do that. Yeah. But I also recently watched a TV, a Netflix show called Eric. It's got Benedict Cumberbatch in it.

[00:26:06] And it's about his son goes missing and they have to go into the... And it's also set in New York. They have to go into the sewers of New York to try and find him. But, yeah. Like, I love the setting for Chad. I think it's a huge part of why this movie does work. Yeah. Eric's set in the 80s as well, isn't it? Yes, I think it is. Yeah. I think it is. Yeah, it is. I think it captures a moment.

[00:26:27] I was reading a fascinating article about how there are so many of these films about a visual depiction of this underworld under the metropolis and how it was used in so many late 70s and 80s movies to depict, you know, either like a rite of passage, a journey through hell. But also as a depiction of the deterioration of social fabric in post-war America.

[00:26:54] And there does seem to be some class or even race dynamics in the people who live below and the people who live above. And that dynamic is explored in a number of different ways. So one of the suggestions made about this film is that it's notable that all of the homeless people who are respectable, lovable, likable characters, real people that we should empathize with and care about are white.

[00:27:23] And, spoilers, the chuds, which is the people who've been mutated by the toxic waste. This writer thought that perhaps they were being racially coded in some way, that they may represent something other than white, non-white people. And this sense of this sort of festering thing that's going to rise up from beneath the metropolis and threaten white working class people.

[00:27:50] I don't know if I'm getting that from the movie necessarily, certainly not intentionally. But it's a very, very white movie for New York. It's not the New York I was imagining. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know whether that was intentional or not. But, I mean, I always kind of excuse it as that was the time. Oh, yeah, of course. It's a low budget movie as well. They're not going to be concerned about diversity or anything like that.

[00:28:18] They're just trying to make it, finish a film with very, very limited means. It just depicts the cultural milieu of the time. So, yes, the result of the casting process was it's all white people. And it's just, you know, that was how it worked back then. It just wouldn't have even occurred to them until you look back on it now. Yeah, of course. But it's interesting that this writer in particular thought that the Chuds were racially typed or coded, which I didn't get.

[00:28:46] The design of the Chuds was supposed to be more sort of obviously human mutated. Because instead of being some sort of supernatural or demonic other thing, they are human beings who've been turned into monsters as a result of exposure to toxic waste that's been hidden. Yeah. I just want to ask about that because they don't really explain it.

[00:29:09] There is that one scene where you see there's a character, Victor, who you see early in the film and he's been bitten by a chud or at least injured by a chud. But then later on, he's obviously been turned into something. He seems much more like a vampire. Like he's definitely not a monster. He's just a human with sharp teeth. It looks like a zombie.

[00:29:34] So the toxic waste is mutating humans into these monsters. Yeah, I think that's what's happening. And when we see Victor, he's sort of partway there. Yes. And as the exposure continues, they just get worse and worse. And this can be seen not necessarily as a condemnation of racial integration or a mobilization of white fears about diversity.

[00:30:00] It could be a parable about how government carelessness about looking after the people it's responsible for could come back and bite them on the ass. Yeah. Yeah. I do think it definitely is the latter. Yeah. So chud, when they first talk about or they first admit that they exist, they describe them as cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers.

[00:30:23] But in actual fact, chud stands for contamination hazard urban disposal, which is what Shepard and George find. This big stockpile of just boxes of waste. Radioactive waste as well. And so, yeah, when you do see the chuds throughout the movie, they do look quite different every time. Sometimes they seem like humans or like monsters dressed as humans have still got clothing.

[00:30:51] Other times they feel very much just like straight up monsters, like almost like rawhead Rex I was reminded of. Like just like completely monstrous and demonic and very not like an animal that you would see or a humanoid. And I do think that the effects were really well pulled off. Like I didn't expect them to look as terrifying. Like the huge sharp teeth and the glowing eyes, especially.

[00:31:20] The glowing eyes really are a sight to see. Yeah. Achieved by using the paint that they use on road signs, I believe. Yeah. I wasn't sure whether it was the paint or the reflective strips that they use on roads or like road signs. But yeah, it's very reflective when you shine light on it and to a point where it looks like it's glowing. But it looks amazing on camera because it doesn't look like that. It doesn't look like reflective strips.

[00:31:49] It looks like there's light emitting from the eyes. Yeah, it does. It's very cleverly done. So it's sort of like that Scotch light material that they used in Superman for clothes. It's where you shine a light on it from the side of the camera and all of this light comes back. On set, you can't necessarily see it. But all of this light is pouring into the camera from this super reflective surface. Sure, sure. Basically, so they don't have to do lots of optical rotoscoping after the fact. Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:19] You can't have the eyes in. It's clever. Yeah, it's freaky. I don't know what the justification for it is. Under what circumstances do your eyes glow? Ah, toxic waste, obviously. Yeah, of course. It's so they can see in the dark, Dan. I don't know. Sure, sure, sure, sure. I mean, so the special effects were done by John Caglioni Jr. And he mentions a lot of foam latex was used at the time. This is pre-silicon.

[00:32:47] And it got really hot, I think he said, in New York. There was a heat wave and the chuds were like literally passing out from being in the costumes for too long. And they had to have oxygen on set to make sure they were getting enough oxygen. It's a pretty impressive work.

[00:33:08] Yeah, I always remember Ted Raimi talking about Evil Dead 2 where he's in that big Henrietta costume and he's grotesque and he's hanging from the ceiling and swinging around. And yeah, he got so sweaty and hot in that that they used to like cut the feet off and then litres of sweat would just pour out of his legs. Oh my God. Oh my God. Wow. That's gross.

[00:33:35] But yeah, John Caglioni Jr., very accomplished special effects man and still working today. So his most recent credit is Terrifier 3. Ah. So he's still trucking, still in high demand. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the effects are incredible in this movie. Like you see the chuds enough. I feel like if they had more longer shots on them, you could tell that, oh, it's just a guy in a suit.

[00:34:02] But they have these kind of fleeting shots and they work really well. Lots of close-ups of the teeth and the eyes. And the fact that every time you see them, they're quite different. So it is that sort of variation. It's not just like, oh, it's the same suit again. Here we go. And there was quite a lot of sort of animatronic movement in the face as well. No, I thought that they were pretty well realised in the scenes where they are attacking.

[00:34:26] It's not just sort of obvious exploitation, quickie stingers and jump scares and so on. Particularly the attack on Lauren I thought was very well staged. Yeah, yeah. And properly suspenseful and tense and fun. Yeah. And there are sometimes some really nice sequences and shots in there. Like there's this scene, funnily enough, you mentioned Mimic and Guillermo del Toro.

[00:34:49] There is a scene where the camera pans away from George and Lauren in bed, goes across to the bedroom window and goes out of the window to reveal a grandfather walking his grandchild along the street. Yeah, yeah. And then you cut down into the street and you end up with this scene where this guy gets stolen by an unseen adversary in a phone booth. And you're left with the child cowering in the corner with the phone swinging in front of them like a pendulum.

[00:35:17] And I just thought, wow, we're actually going for something fairly classy here. I wasn't expecting this. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I agree. I agree. Definitely Guillermo del Toro, grandfathers and children being in peril. Yes, yes. Now it's time for Random Trivia. So Dan, what fabulous piece of trivia did you find in discarded toxic waste today? Oh, yes.

[00:35:45] Well, there is a cameo from the director, Douglas Cheek. He plays one of the bums drinking on the street outside the diner before the Chuds attack John Goodman's character and the other cop in the diner. But yeah, Douglas Cheek is one of those guys just drinking on the street. Oh, wow. So glamorous then. Yes. Always a glamorous cameo.

[00:36:15] Yeah, we forgot to mention John Goodman is in this movie alongside Jay Thomas as diner cops. Yeah. I was shocked to see John Goodman in this because he's quite young and he's quite slim as well. Like he's not as big as he normally is. And I just always assumed John Goodman was a huge actor. I mean, as in like a famous, renowned actor.

[00:36:41] But this was one of his first roles in 1984 at the age of 32, I think it was. So that's really surprising to me. Yeah, I know. I had no idea either. Yeah, he's a pretty good looking guy at that age, wasn't he? And that's our trivia. Yeah. One scene that I was really surprised by, there is a scene where there's a whole bunch of scientists

[00:37:09] in gear with video cameras exploring the underground world because they know that there's something down there. So they're going down there to look and they bump into another group of cops that are in lots of gear and armed to the teeth. Yeah. Who were also exploring the tunnels. They have a bit of a jurisdictional fight between them. That's right. Yeah, yeah.

[00:37:31] But I'm watching militarised people in gear with guns exploring a cave looking for monsters with video cameras on and a tracking device. And I thought, this is aliens. Right. Yeah. But aliens came out two years later. Yeah. 1986. So I don't know. I wondered whether this might have inspired James Cameron if he'd seen Chud. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe.

[00:38:00] I mean, I did read, and I'm not sure whether this is true, but Chud inspired Jordan Peele's movie Us. Is it true? Is it true? I'm not sure. Yeah, I think it's acknowledged. Isn't there a copy of the poster on the wall in Us? There's, there's, I mean, I watched Us recently, actually, just to see how, if there were similarities for the first time I watched it. And at the start, when the boy is watching just TV, there's a VHS of Chud. Oh, that's what it is.

[00:38:29] On the side of the TV. And I was like, hey, there's Chud right there. Yeah. Because they do have similar DNA. There are underground people living in tunnels that come up. And it's also a government experiment that's gone completely wrong and they're trying to cover it up. So there are similarities between Chud and, yeah, I guess very heavily inspired. Yeah, I think so.

[00:38:56] And of course, Jordan Peele mobilizes that imagery and that dynamic to explore social issues. Yes. In a way that only Jordan Peele can. Yes, exactly. It's fascinating stuff. Yeah. The movie is very fascinating. People that haven't watched Us. It's one of those movies like we think, this is different. It's not what I expected. Yeah. Well, in terms of the possible influence on aliens, who knows?

[00:39:25] But certainly Us is influenced. But the film itself was influenced by a previous movie. The production designer said that he doesn't think it's a horror movie. He doesn't think it's a monster movie. He feels it's more like a 50s sci-fi adventure along the lines of Them from 1954. I don't know if you've seen that. No, I haven't. I know Serge has recommended it. He has. I think he's nominated it as a patient's choice before.

[00:39:54] But I have seen it. Yeah. I think it was a mystery science theater movie or a Riff Trax movie at one point. So I have seen it with sort of wisecracking commentary over the time. Oh, yes, yes. And I think it's giant ants. I think that's what it is. But there is a scene where military types are exploring underground tunnels looking for monsters. And I think that's probably the granddaddy of them all in terms of influences. Right. I think that may be where all of these movies are coming from. Yeah.

[00:40:23] I mean, Chad does come across quite timeless at times. Like it doesn't feel too 80s. Even how they're dressed. Like it is quite plain. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. They're just everyday folk. And they're not particularly styled or made up or anything like that. No. As I said earlier. They look like shit. Yeah. It's amazing. I guess we should talk about the music. Because I was quite impressed by the music. A lot of synth. Okay.

[00:40:52] I'm a bit biased. I love my synths. But it didn't feel cheap. Like it felt like there were themes. Like you've got the main sort of opening sequence theme, which is also in the end credits. And I think partway through the movie a little bit. But you've got some 80s rock drums for some reason. Very abrasive. And with this kind of, I think it's vocal sampling. I'm not sure what the vocal sampling was just a synth pretending to be like a choir.

[00:41:22] Or I'm not sure. It's sort of halfway. It's a melotron. Ah, right, right, right. And that worked really well. And there's also this sort of pensive, kind of almost melancholic, arpeggiated synth cue that plays when Lauren's in her apartment. I really like it. It's quite catchy in a way. But sad. Like it's quite a well-realized score. I know. I was surprised.

[00:41:50] Because, I mean, it clearly hasn't been done with a huge budget necessarily. No. But it goes for some interesting effects. Like I noticed the scene where Shepard explores the subterranean world. There's a low synth drone that's being punctuated by occasional single high piano hits. Yeah. Like water drops. But they're piano hits. And I thought, this is great. I was not expecting this at all. Yeah, I know. I know. I really enjoyed the score a lot. Yeah.

[00:42:20] So it's credited to Cooper Hughes. But as that emerges, that is not one person. Oh. That is two people. Oh, yes. Martin Cooper and David A. Hughes. Both Brits. Both Liverpoolians. Both very much involved in the post-punk electronic scene. Wow. So they hail from bands like Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark, for example.

[00:42:45] And just as a side gig, they tried film scores. You know, the way they describe it in their commentary interview, they were in their 20s and they just thought they could do anything. Whereas now they look back on it and think that if they were given three weeks to score a movie now, they'd be terrified. But back then, they just did it. They thought it was quite funny because they were working with the producer, Andrew Bonim, or Bonny May.

[00:43:12] And he was not accustomed to synth music scoring. Right. He was used to going to see a score being recorded with an orchestra. Sure. So to see these two guys improvising over scenes and just laying one track on another, on another, on another until they slowly build up the sound. Wow. He didn't get it. He was sort of looking panicked when he just heard track one. It was just like one drone or something.

[00:43:39] And then after a while, he jumped up and went, I get what you guys are doing. You're layering things. Like multi-track recording. He didn't get it. Yeah, he was just used to hearing the finished thing in one go. Wow. Wow. Wow. Because it doesn't feel like they're just leaning on a keyboard, though. Like it sounds like realized themes that are recurring. You've got motifs going on. Like it's proper scoring. It is. Yeah.

[00:44:09] And a lot of musical experimentation as well. They're using an emulator sampler as well as some early analog digital synths. Right. As well as the piano that was in the room, which they also sampled and played backwards and dropped everything down an octave. They said they sampled a lot of things and dropped it down an octave to make it sound deep and subterranean and weird. Wow. Yeah. They were having fun there for three weeks.

[00:44:36] And the end result is surprisingly good, I thought. Yeah. I know. But how, I mean, because it is quite simple when you really listen to it. But it's just well written. I don't know. It works really well. Yeah, it's effective. If you get the Arrow Blu-ray, which is only available in the US, unfortunately, at the moment, if you're living outside, you'll have to import it.

[00:44:59] It does have an interview with them and then the complete score isolated on a track, which they'd assembled recently in order to provide material for the vinyl release. Because, of course. Right, right. You've got to have a vinyl release. Of course. Of course. Coming to you live from the Movie Oobly and Theatre, it's the prestigious Moobly Awards. Moobly Awards time.

[00:45:29] It's where we nominate our favourite toxic waste, contaminated parts of the film in a number of glowing eyes, teeth-chomping categories. Best quote. My favourite quote comes from that scene that looks like Aliens, where you have two bunches of guys from competing organisations exploring the underground world of the Chuds. And the government types tell Bosch, the cop, to get out of their jurisdiction. They're in charge.

[00:45:59] So he tells him to pull out. And Bosch says, what are you kidding? Your man has a camera. Mine has a flamethrower. It's great. And they all have flamethrowers as well. I didn't know that. They do. I didn't know if flamethrowers were so easily accessible. Standard issue for NYPD, apparently. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Wow.

[00:46:26] My favourite quote is, I really like Shepard. I thought he was hilarious, played by Daniel Stead. So it's during the meeting with all the officials and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Member Wilson. And Shepard is trying to ask them how the toxic waste ties in with the missing people. And the commissioner interrupts, in which Shepard just retorts back, eat it!

[00:46:55] It's like, stop talking. I love it. It's just like a social, I guess it's an 80s thing, like eat it. It's just not something you would say anymore. And there's also another scene with Mrs. Monroe. She's like the bag lady. She's leaving the police station and she just says, suck a duck. Best hair or costume? I agree, Conrad. Everyone looks like shit in this movie.

[00:47:24] So there aren't that many good costumes. But I will point out the boy that lives in the downstairs apartment. He's wearing a rainbow stripy t-shirt. But he sports the most 80s long-haired bowl cut I have ever seen. It's amazing. It's like a haircut that does not exist anymore. The really long bowl cut where it sort of covers your eyebrows.

[00:47:54] It's a sight to behold. It's very special. Very bastion from the never-ending story kind of bowl cut. Yes, exactly. My favourite outfit would have to be Daniel Stern in his stained turquoise wife beater and messy, enormous mass of curly hair. I just thought, again, everybody looks like shit in this movie, but nobody looks shitter than Daniel Stern. He just looks filthy throughout. He does. He does.

[00:48:24] Especially when he attends that meeting as well with all the officials. It's like, couldn't have changed your shirt or something? Had a shower? I don't know. Most 80s movement. 80s for me, I want to ask you about this because this is something, a piece of technology did not exist in my world at all. And it's the answering machine that George Cooper checks.

[00:48:49] And he holds up a black box, some sort of device that plays a tone that tells his answering machine to play instead of record. Which is amazing. Like, what? So you call your own number and it would go to the answering machine, but then the tone would tell it not to record, but to play? Yeah, that's right. How does that work? Yeah, it's just, it's listening for this tone. So you would have to carry around this little black box that makes this tone. That's great.

[00:49:18] If you wanted to pick up your messages remotely while you were away from your house. Wow. But how does, I mean, how does that technology even exist? I don't, I just, I can't fathom it. Well, there was that whole thing about hacking the telephone, the analog phones, because of course it was just, you know, an audio signal only. There's nothing else you can do. And there was that whole business.

[00:49:41] I think it was talked about in war games and other computer hacker movies where if you play a certain tone down the phone, all of your long distance calls are free. You know, it's like an audio, you know, a phone engineer's secret code that enables them to test phones without having to pay for them and that kind of thing. So yeah, there were lots of audio phone hacks back then. That's great. So 80s for you, Conrad.

[00:50:08] Well, I thought the most obvious thing to go for is the government is secretly harming people with toxic waste. Oh, yes. I mean, it's teenage mutant ninja turtles, alligators in the sewers that are growing up into enormous sizes due to toxic waste. And it was just, the government was just doing so many evil things secretly in the 80s. Dan, you have no idea. Yeah. Favourite scene.

[00:50:35] My favourite scene is the attack on Lauren in her apartment. That's mine too. Yeah. We finally see a chud clearly and it looks pretty good and pretty disgusting. And there's lots of sort of cat and mouse in different rooms and she's being really resourceful and doing interesting things like throwing George's photography developer chemicals on the chud's face, which is a very good move.

[00:51:00] And then luckily, either George or Lauren is a sword collector. Yeah. Of some kind. That was lucky, wasn't it? I saw them in the scene earlier in the film and I thought, I'm sure those are going to come in handy later on. Chekov samurai sword, yeah. Yeah. I think she picks up a cutlass, but there are a few different sword options on the wall. Yeah, she does. She has, yeah, quite a few to go for.

[00:51:29] And luckily, the chud decides to demonstrate its previously unknown neck stretching ability. So she's got a really good target to like cut its head off. Yeah. She really does. She's great. Most cliche moment. There's a few cliches. So you've got the truck exploding for kind of no reason at the end. So Wilson gets shot and it's happy days.

[00:51:54] But the truck moves forward onto the manhole opening and just explodes. And I don't know why, but movie, I guess. You've got to have an explosion at the end. It looks amazing, I have to say. And it's one of the most incredible looking shots where you've got the characters in the foreground and this like enormously flaming truck in the background. It's pretty spectacular.

[00:52:23] Yeah, lots of sparks too. Or it's obviously burning something that results in lots of sort of burning fibers flying through the sky. It looks really dangerous. Oh, yeah, definitely. Like they got more than they bargained for when they set this thing off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not a miniature or anything. It's a full-size van truck on fire. Like really on fire. Yeah. Cliché for you, Conrad. Cliché for me, unnecessary shower scene.

[00:52:52] Why does Lauren have a shower scene? Why is she prodding a coat hanger into the drain and getting sprayed with blood? Yeah. What the hell has that got to do with the rest of the movie? And I found out it's because the producer, Andrew Bonime or Bonime, thought this was a great idea. And even had a body double for Lauren turning around and showing her breasts. Oh, wow.

[00:53:17] You can see that version of the scene and the deleted scenes on the Blu-ray if you would like to. It's still in the movie in this integrated cut, but they have removed the body double nudity because why? Yeah. Best special effect. Well, we've mentioned it a few times. Severed heads. There are some very impressive severed head effects. Really impressive. Really detailed.

[00:53:45] I actually thought, is this actually their heads? And they've just put in some prosthetics for the severed part. But yeah, really, really well made severed heads. Yeah. Law Matos, who is Daniel Stern's wife and has been since 1980. Right. Who plays the first victim and Bosch's wife in the movie. Yeah. Her head, which obviously has been sat by a river for a while, by the coast for a while.

[00:54:13] So it's like not in great condition either. So that's really horrifying. Yeah. And then there's one of the government types, I think, who's lost his head whilst exploring the sewers. And yeah, they're really good heads. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny as well because George and Shepard need the headset and it's still attached to the severed head on the ground. It's great. It's great comedy. Oh, yeah.

[00:54:41] It's there for a narrative reason, which is great. Favourite sound effect. I do love the Geiger counters. I just love how Geiger counters sound. But in terms of another sound effect I want to point out, it's when the child is trying to burst through the basement door of the apartment. And it does finally burst through and there's a sound. It really does sound like a crow squawk.

[00:55:11] I'm not sure why they put it there, but it sounds like a sound as a child bursts through. You have to play it back. It's hilarious. I don't know. It's a choice for sure. Okay. I'll have to check that out again. I did not catch that at all. Right. Favourite sound for you? For me, very simple and obvious. It was the monster howl that Shepard and Bosh hear in the underground tunnels. Ah.

[00:55:40] It's sort of snarly, but also anguished and strange. So it's sort of like that odd sound that you hear in American Werewolf in London for the wolf sounds. It's not purely menacing and animalistic. There is a hint of the anguished humanity in there as well. Right, right, right. So I was impressed by that. Lovely bit of reverb on there too. Yes, yes. It's the most funniest moment. For me, the funniest moment in this film comes in my favourite scene.

[00:56:10] Lauren being attacked by a chud in her apartment. And it's the moment where, whoops-a-daisy, she accidentally disconnects her own phone by getting her foot caught up in it. So it's both the women falling over whilst trying to escape from whatever trope. And she also destroys her only means of contacting somebody for help. Yeah. I just roared. I thought, really?

[00:56:39] I was so confused by that. I mean, intentional comedy, I guess. But I was so like, what's going on here? Yeah. And for you? Funny moment for me. So we haven't talked about this, but Bosch has an assistant officer called Sanderson. And I love it because every time he asks her to do something, she rolls her eyes. Just complete insubordination.

[00:57:07] She does not want to do his dirty work. And it's hilarious. Every time she rolls her eyes. And it's in every scene that she's in. It's amazing. I know. Which is another reason why I thought I, you know, didn't realise that his wife is missing. Because surely, if this guy is labouring through grief and worry about his missing wife, and he's at work, surely your colleagues would be more understanding. No, this woman does not give a shit.

[00:57:36] She's over it. Yeah. Does not care whatsoever. Yeah. No. And that's our movies. Oh, yeah. Hi, I'm Sandy King Carpenter, producer of movies like They Live, Prince of Darkness, In the Mouth of Madness, and you're listening to Movie Oubliette. Okay, verdict time.

[00:58:05] First episode of 2025. Should Chad from 1984 be resurrected from its damp sewer dwelling into the light and be appreciated once more? Or should it be pumped full of gas, decapitated with a cutlass, and pushed back into the darkness of the Oubliette? Never spoken of again. And Conrad, for both of us, double blind. Yes. What's your final verdict on this film?

[00:58:35] Well, I was expecting trashy exploitation nonsense with enjoyable grungy special effects and perhaps tongue-in-cheek tone if it's Corman. And I didn't get that. I got something that was more like an ensemble drama with a bunch of really interesting New York characters. There's a really strong sense of place and time. The city looks like shit. They all look like shit.

[00:59:03] They're all dealing with a number of social pressures as well, which is quite interesting. A lot of poverty going around. And yeah, lots of dialogue. In fact, perhaps too much. But it was good dialogue and well acted. The acting and characterization is way above the caliber that this film deserves. Yeah.

[00:59:26] And yet when the action scenes do come, like the attack on Lauren or the finale with the exploding, the obligatory exploding vehicle, it's good stuff. It's well executed, both technically and in terms of direction and so on. So I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't what I was expecting. I think the whole thing is just a bit of a jumbled mess, to be honest. I'm not sure about the story structure.

[00:59:52] Several things like Bosch's missing wife feel like the victims of a post-production edit screw up. But on the whole, I can't say that I didn't enjoy it. And I can't say that it's a bad movie. It's an odd movie. But I enjoyed it. I guess for genre fans, I would definitely recommend it. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to everyone, though. Yeah. I think I would recommend it to people. I would.

[01:00:20] Yeah, I definitely would agree with you on all accounts. Like, I think you've pretty much nailed it in terms of how surprising it was not being terrible, I guess. Because I've known of its reputation and I really thought it was going to be like Extra, which was just a hot mess. Just like I had no idea what type of film that was going to be. Whereas this wasn't. This had intention.

[01:00:48] There was a bunch of different characters all converging for the same sort of goals, which was really interesting. Kind of did feel like Stranger Things in that respect with all these characters working on things. But then they end up just teaming up at the end. And it's amazing when they finally meet. Definitely wasn't B-grade. I wouldn't say this was a B-grade movie whatsoever. There is a sequel, though. Chud. There is.

[01:01:18] Bud of Chud. Bud the Chud. Bud the Chud. Yeah. And that looks really bad. So, I don't know. I haven't seen it. I can't really say. But yeah, that looks like the movie I thought this movie was going to be. And this movie is much, much more superior and would recommend. Well, actually, our patrons suggested that we watch Bud the Chud for our Minnesota, our patron exclusive Minnesota.

[01:01:48] So, I think we should do it. Okay. I'm up for it. Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. So, join us on Patreon if you want to hear us watch Chud 2. So, I mean, I guess we should check in with our patrons on what they thought of this Chud movie. Well, yes. And for this year, we have upgraded our AI. Hi. And so, I guess I should say hello to whoever it is now. Oh, yeah. Okay.

[01:02:18] Oh, hi. Gary, is it? Hello. Okay. Could we have the result of the patrons vote, please? They decided to set it free. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

[01:02:49] Oh. Yeah. The underground scenes were amazing. The dark labyrinthine passages were so claustrophobic and spooky. I half expected to see Vincent and Sarah Connor down there. He's obviously an 80s kid like me. That roar when the captain and the wet bandit were first exploring was terrifying. If I'd heard that, I would have scooby-dooed my ass right out of there. Yeah.

[01:03:15] And then he says, I can't believe Bosh's wife disappeared and then he goes to work the next day. It must have been his ex-wife. That wouldn't explain it, I guess. Wow. Yeah, it's very true. Jasmine said, this is a highly enjoyable 80s monster movie that ought to be released from the sewers to rip the surface dwellers to pieces.

[01:03:38] I love Daniel Stern and Christopher Curry's characters, though I think that if the annoying John Hurd and Kim Greist characters were cut out of the film completely, no one would notice and it would leave room for more creature action. Oh, good point. Good point. Oh, I'm surprised, Jasmine. You liked this one. Yeah, she enjoyed it, which is great because usually we're subjecting her to just a constant stream of disappointment. But no, not this time. Oh, okay.

[01:04:06] But film Aficionado says, in what universe do you get drenched in blood while showering, but then respond by casually getting dressed, arranging some flowers and watching TV? That's a good point. Oh. Anyway, Chud is dull, meandering and over-serious. Toss it back with extreme prejudice. Oh. So there you go. Okay, okay. It was not unanimous, but overall, they want to set it free. Yes.

[01:04:36] All right. Be free, Chud. Off you run, Chud. First one out of the gate. Yes. Yeah. First one for 2025. And thanks to Philippot for that patron's choice. Yeah, indeed. Yeah. Keep picking those great movies for us to explore. We always get pleasant surprises. Hmm. So, Conrad, what are we doing next time?

[01:05:01] Well, next time, as we mentioned at the beginning, the director, Gianno Swalk, recently passed. So we thought we would like to honour his memory by revisiting a film. And a film that's particularly apt around Valentine's Day, which is when this episode will come out. It's the 1980 romantic fantasy time travel movie, Somewhere in Time.

[01:05:29] Oh, I haven't seen this one, but you have mentioned it a few times on the podcast. I have, yeah. So this is one of my 80s treasures. So I'll be interested to see what you make of it. Jane Seymour and Christopher Reeve, Superman himself, falling in love across time. Oh, how romantic. Yeah. So we're going to get loved up in the next episode. Yes, yes, yes. Okay.

[01:05:57] All right, listeners, if you do want to keep up to date with our episodes, you can follow us on all platforms as Movie Oubliette. Or you can email us directly at movie.oubliette at gmail.com. Yes. And if you want to support the show on Patreon, you can do that. And you can nominate films and you can vote on films. And all the fun stuff is over there. Yes. All the fun stuff. We have a YouTube channel as well and merchandise on Redbubble.

[01:06:25] And please, if you haven't already, give us a rating and review or whatever you're listening to us on or watching a still image on YouTube or however you're consuming us. It does help us out a lot. It does indeed. Okay. First one in the can, Conrad, for 2025. Until next time, listeners. Goodbye. Goodbye.

[01:07:02] You don't have to listen to the lunatic ravings of this paranoid hippie.